bluestar

All of the advice is mixed up here. First off, you can apply to register a trademark before it is used, if you have the intent to use within a year. It is a different form of registration, and requires a follow up when you do use the mark in trade. You can read about that on the USPTO. You can do it yourself, and in fact it can now be done electronically on the USPTO web site for cheaper. But the process is GIGO: you can try to trademark anything not currently in the database, but any other prior competitive use could challenge your attempt to register your mark. Registering your mark does not guarantee anything, it is just one more way to protect your mark. You don't have to register your mark to protect it, just protect it. In fact, even if you register your mark, if you don't protect it, you can lose your rights to it. How to protect it? The first thing is to use it in public and indicate it is your intent to treat as a protected trademark by including "TM" with its use, or words indicating it is a protected trademark. You don't ever have to register to do that. If you register successfully, you replace the "TM" with the "circled R". It is up to you to do searches to see if there are competitive uses. The USPTO will do this as part of the registration review, but if they find a competitive use before you do, then you are out your registration fee when they refuse you. So, do your homework. These searches are in part what you pay an IP service for. If you want some help at not too much cost above the registration cost, check out trademarkia.com for registration service. They act as your filing agent and legal representative. They also search their own reasonably large database of marks for possible competitors. I did my first one through trademarkia, and once I felt comfortable understanding what they did for me, I did the next on my own. I did word marks for names of my spirits. I plan on doing design marks in the future. In the end, though, if you plan to have trademarks, you do need to be ready to consult with an attorney, because protecting a trademark really means that you are willing to legally defend your use from others. Unless you plan to defend yourself without a lawyer.

I actually haven't seen this pump, or the next size down, for any cheaper than at McMaster-Carr. And for me, there is the advantage that they are a short drive away and I can avoid shipping purchasing at will call. On the other hand, I have to pay state and county taxes.

That would be great. I think the TTB and the micro distillers are all learning together with the explosion of products in this business. But which do you think is more fun, being the distiller or being the government representative?

Agreed, consistency definitely is lacking. I have also seen a few "White Whiskeys", one line, one typeface. I think DD is an example, a wheat whiskey short aged in uncharred oak. Of course, they may instead just ask the others to stop using their labels, Arrrgh.

That sounds right, about 15hp. The Sussman's mentioned in links above are too small for that size still, unless you are willing to wait a very long time to get up to temperature. 60 lbs/hr (couple hp) might be enough to keep the still running at a trickle once at temperature, maybe.

Submitted December 27, 2011 via Permits On Line, approved March 1, 2012. Two weeks were spent correcting the layout because we misinterpreted advice we received from a field office before we applied. Also, there may have been a hiccup in the electronic system that stalled things a bit, but that was never verified.

True, but in this case they are trying to be consistent, sadly. All they are saying is that they want the reader of the label not to confuse the fanciful name of your product with the category. The category is whiskey. So, if you say white whiskey, it sounds like a new category. Yes, it is subjective, and our is not to reason why except in as much as we can get better at getting through COLA on the first try ;-)

Yes, indeed! Have you already submitted your application to the TTB? If so, did you use Permits Online?

When we joined the forum and introduced ourselves here over a year ago, we were working on setting up Blue Star Distillery in Michigan. Along the way, we had the opportunity and strong local support to set up Quincy Street Distillery in Riverside, Illinois. We just wanted to announce that Quincy Street Distillery received its DSP basic permit today! Those interested might like to know we used the TTB's electronic submission system Permits Online, submitting our application on December 23, 2011. So it took us just over two months. We appreciate all the assistance and guidance we received from many of the knowledgable staff at the TTB. We hope to have construction and still installation complete in a couple of weeks, and a refreshed web site in April. Meanwhile, you can watch our progress on Facebook. Cheers!

Just finalizing our premise layout with TTB, moments away from getting our permit! The last issue was a detail on the premises, and the following was made clear: no retail sales or tasting is allowed in bonded premises OR general premises, that is, in the DSP proper. You can provide a physical separation of your retail space from your DSP with a secured access, but you can not have to cross the DSP in order to get access to other public ways (rest rooms, exit, etc.). On the other hand, there is no reason you have to have a general premises. You could have a bonded premise adjacent to a separated retail space. BUT, a retail space can not be used to hold any taxed spirits for wholesale, and a bonded premises can not be used to hold taxed spirits. So, if you want a place to hold taxed spirits for wholesale (including returns) you need a general premises. And don't forget, the DSP must have a direct exterior entrance (not through the retail or other public space). YMMV

Great to finally meet you, Po! And I was really impressed with your rice spirits. Look forward to when you are distributed in Chicago!

We did an estimate for a 2000 sf industrial condo with fire main nearby. It ran about $18K. The IBC and NFPA allow the oak casks storage not to be included in the count, but the bottles are a more complicated matter. In the bonded area, they would count, because it is industrial. If you move them into general premises, and that section of the general premises is part of your retail, they do not count, because of an exception for bottles in merchandising space. There is no exception for bottles in industrial or warehousing space. All this is assuming you are in the limits for business or light industrial. But of course, in the end, it is whatever your local fire code authority decides.

We are doing a 50 gallon with electric elements and a 1 hour heat up from cold. That requires 40kW of 240v or 480v power. That is a lot of power! If you have gas, a gas steam boiler would be far more efficient and cheaper to operate in the long run, even at this size. And if you don't have that kind of power, you could spend as much bringing in 3 phase higher voltage as you would spend on the boiler. Jedd's solution is possible, since you don't need the full power to run the still, just to bring up to initial temperature. On the other hand, 20KW would take 2 hours to bring to temperature from cold for 50 gallon, maybe 3-4 hours for 100 gallon. I assume 40-50 gallons of bath water in addition to the pot contents. By the way, our still and many of the electric element stills are actually not steam heated, they are bain maries, or water bath heated. There are some definite advantages, including the ability to use the pot for things other than distilling, like mashing or heat compounding at prolonged controlled temperatures below boiling.

Technically, you are not supposed to have anything in the bonded premise that are not activities needed to be conducted in bond. In particular, they would object to any regular access of the public in the normal course of business, including for general deliveries, sales, tasting, even using the bathroom! Also, your local code requirements may necessitate a separation of what is done in the bonded premises and what is done in the general premises, since the requirements for manufacture may conflict with that for service or retail sales. On the other hand, keep in mind that sometimes the bonded and general premises are not all physically isolated, just delimited. If you aren't sure, you might find your TTB field rep is willing to take a preliminary look and provide feedback on what you plan to do (mine did). Also remember the TTB has to have the ability to lock out the bonded area if necessary.

I like that idea, should work well in a conical fermenter, for example. Just make a TC cap with bubbler to attach on the exit valve?

So how has it been holding up for you, now that you've had about 5 months to work with it? I am looking for something that can mount on a 3" TC flange with about a 24" shaft. Are you interested in building one for me? PM with particulars, if you are.

Here, here! We hope to produced and sell in very much the same "spirit"!

Yeah, I got the joke, but I thought maybe a newbie would be confused, so... ;-)

That would be gauging without meeting the legal requirements in the Gauging Manual where applicable. But I meant non-legal gauging in the sense of when doing so without a specific need to meet the legal requirements in the Gauging Manual.

And don't overlook effective use of copyright. You can't trademark all your artwork and designs, but they can be copyright. I have used Trademarkia, and it is reasonable with a nice notification service for status changes. But I have also applied directly using the USPTO electronic system, and it is easy and very inexpensive. But with trademarks, its GIGO. With either Trademarkia or USPTO self application, you have got to do all of your homework. I had that done once by a lawyer, and it ran over $2K for a single wordmark, and the outcome was determining it could not be secured.

There are none. Search the other threads here, it is discussed in some detail. The cheapest way to go is a combination of a cheap ($2k to $3K) Anton Paar hand held for general testing with the calibrated glass hydrometers used when doing legal gauging.

It depends on your local authority. Grease traps are required anywhere that there are food stuffs that can have any significant amount of fat or oil in them. But it is not required everywhere just because there is food stuffs. General kitchens, like in restaurants, are seldom exempted, because they don't have a well enough defined process to ensure that they won't have grease, and generally they do (like cooking oil or dairy). But some authorities won't make the distinction for any food preparer or manufacturer. Ultimately, it depends on the language of the code (ours says where there is grease or fats) and the interpretation of your inspector.

Don't know yet, they didn't seem to advertise it as well this time around.

Be very interested to hear about how things go, and would love to visit next time I pass through Seattle area (my folks live in southwest WA). What style of gin and what kind of base are your working with?