Foreshot

Yeah, it does help if you look up the right name... Sorry.

Bluefish for the win. For pricing look at other distillers around you. I would charge similar rates as them. You're selling a premium product, don't try to price match regular commercial spirits. Unless you're experienced in the industry you're never going to be close to what your actual sales will be except by happenstance. With most startups (not just distilling) you're most likely going to be selling a lot for the first 2-4 months. You're probably going to be getting at least some free press & general buzz. Ride that wave as hard as you can. It is that 2-4 month point when your product/marketing/location/etc will start to dictate your sales. Short of having a perfect product you're most likely going to see a drop in sales. Just be ready for it. Also are you selling bottles only? If you're in a state that allows a bar do that. Unless you're selling a lot of bottles the bar will likely make you more money than bottle sales. Sorry I can't help you more.

Seeds are easy to get: https://www.amazon.com/Wormwood-Artemisia-absinthium-Seed-Needs/dp/B002TTGO3C Not a really good option for 1-2 plants though. Want to start a farm, all good. :)

Same here. He's great to work with.

I should have stated that the key to getting beyond the 3-5x range is making it so that an investor has little risk or has to do little to manage the business. If an investor can drop a load of cash off at your door and then get a good return with little or no activity then you can ask for a higher multiple. This would mean having a business that has solid experienced management, been around a while (3-5 years minimum), strong balance sheet/cash flow, with little likelihood of something negative on the way, and good growth prospects. If an investor will need to be an active part of the business other than being on the Board of Directors they will want a better return for their time spent on the business.

One year of expected earnings. Most investors want 20% or higher returns of their initial investment. That means 5 years or less. Most look for 3-4 meaning 25-35% return. It's hard to break the 3-5x earnings model unless you have very high earnings or there other extenuating circumstances that could lead to better than expected returns. Once you get beyond family and friends investors aren't really generous. You might get 1 year to get things up to speed, but it probably won't last much longer than that. They will expect something year 2 and beyond. If you get a good guy you might be able to do convertible debt bonds. It can lower costs the until they are converted. In the US it keeps the debtor higher if there is a bankruptcy so some investors prefer it. The vast majority of investors consider only the cash returns. The increase in value of the company is normally not considered in their calculations. The increase in value is their reward for the risk they undertake. You can argue 'til your blue in the face. Investors don't care. I will admit I am a bit jaded after dealing with startup companies, your experience may be better.

3-5 times earnings. Unless you have something magical it's unlikely you're be able to go above that. If you're going for distribution as a major source of income & you have no experience stick to the low end. Distribution is about marketing/sales more than anything else. Lots of bad products sell as well as good stuff because of marketing. If you're going for more of a local distillery/pub: Smaller town keep it lower, bigger town or tourist area then give it a little more. If you have any local breweries with a similar business model you can ask them what they would value it at. You will be somewhat close. And most investors that know what they are doing will ignore your numbers anyhow. Until you've been in business a few years your numbers are a guess.

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-03-16/americans-aren-t-letting-go-of-their-craft-beer-wine-and-whisky

Are you rinsing the bottles before you fill them? If so with what? It could be bloom if you don't rinse them.

Others can chime in on this but I believe that the key is if the brewery pitches yeast or not. Once yeast is pitched it becomes something different to transfer as it would be considered beer at that point and tax would have to be paid. I'm doing the same thing with a brewery down the street from me. They will do my mashing but I will pitch yeast and ferment at my DSP. For wort it's considered raw material like grains.

Ignore that one, it was not a spirit. This one is: https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicDisplaySearchBasic&ttbid=15062001000306 Class/Type Code: RUM SPECIALTIES And a couple others: https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicDisplaySearchBasic&ttbid=13247001000260 https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicDisplaySearchBasic&ttbid=15065001000339 https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicDisplaySearchBasic&ttbid=15065001000341 Ok, I have a template. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

Maybe this from Ballast Point: https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicDisplaySearchBasic&ttbid=15177001000234 Class/Type Code: MALT BEVERAGES SPECIALITIES - FLAVORED

The brewery that is doing my mashing has a canner. That's more my reason for checking into it. If it's available I should at least do some investigation.

Cool, thanks for the info. I think I would call it a cordial/liqueur for TTB purposes? Or am I missing something? (cause that is likely) (h) Class 8; cordials and liqueurs. Cordials and liqueurs are products obtained by mixing or redistilling distilled spirits with or over fruits, flowers, plants, or pure juices therefrom, or other natural flavoring materials, or with extracts derived from infusions, percolation, or maceration of such materials, and containing sugar, dextrose, or levulose, or a combination thereof, in an amount not less than 21⁄2 percent by weight of the finished product.

Anyone doing this? What is your experience with it? Good/bad/etc? How does one legally make a canned cocktail? I ask as I will have access to a canning line. It seems like a waste to ignore the possibility.

If you search the forums you'll see the technical details on the transaction for the TTB. It's simple. Good luck!

As in: Is this https://morewinemaking.com/products/wine-bottle-filler-deluxe-5-spout.html accurate enough to ward off any TTB issues? Or do I need to go full fledged Mori/XpressFill?

Starting to look into bottle fillers. Volumetric, level, etc. I'm looking for 4-6 bottles at a time. - Biggest question is: What is least likely to get me in trouble with a TTB audit? - Level vs Volumetric: For aesthetics I would prefer the level, but is it a real issue with the Volumetric? - Any best practices for reliable, repeatable & accurate process? - Any other knowledge you can impart? Thanks everyone

Excellent list, thanks!

Then I'll be there, thanks! Edit: Just signed up. For anyone else interested you have to call them to avoid having to sign up for the convention itself.

So they do have sort of a floor pass - It's $145, though it's for a single day only. Odd. I would love to do the "Architecture/Design of a Physical Facility (Distillery)" class but I'm not spending $825 (non-member) on top of the $425 (non-member) for it. If I could pay for the class without anything else I would do it in a heartbeat.

Well there you go, science! And he just wrote that too. Thanks JustAndy, that helps a lot!

I was listening to a podcast that was interviewing Sean Venus of Venus Spirits. He stated that lower proof would allow the product to oxidize faster, as water allows more oxygen in. I never heard of this before & am a bit suspect. I've googled this and couldn't find anything supporting it. Has anyone else heard of this? I know a couple other reasons to keep barrel entry proof down (reduced wood contribution/tannins, less proofing), but never increased oxidation.

Is that a can of worms I hear opening? Lots of stuff in Arroyo. BostonApothecary.com is a great resource. He dives way deep into Arroyo and related subjects. Are you interested in ester production in general or just following Arroyo 's methods? How long are you fermenting for? Open/closed ferment? What yeast are you using? Something rum specific or DADY? For rum Privateer Rum or Maggies' Farm are great examples of high funk rums. I know Maggie's Farm products pretty well as I live a couple minutes from the distillery. He open ferments turbinado sugar at ~100f. I don't know how long he ferments for, but I think it is a week or more. He uses dunder but I'm not sure if it's fresh or infected (Sorry SCD, I know you hate that word). He runs a pair of alembic still with worm tubes.

To that question, the answer is no. Nefarious people are going to do nefarious things. There will always be risk. Whether it's someone stealing a recipe or someone imitating it there will always be a risk that someone has something almost exactly like yours. You can though check out the background of the company/people and contact any customers they have. And honestly the harder part of the business is not the product, it's marketing and getting people to buy your product. There's plenty of rebubblers that don't care about the product and only care about selling. Just because a couple of your buddies like what you make doesn't mean you'll be a success and just because they hate it doesn't mean you'll fail either.