clearwaterbrewer

And so begins the Goliath intimidating David... http://news.yahoo.com/jack-daniels-legal-fight-small-distiller-151734616.html

"But as to fire hazard zones, depends on local interpretation, depends on the building, and is a separate question. Our bonded area is F1, and the other areas B or A, but the entire building is a single zone, so fire separations are not required." interested in how they interpret it to be that way (a single zone)... F1, B, and A are all occupancies, and separation of occupancy seems fairly straightforward... I could see it being A occupancy with 'incidental' F1 and B??? If you have a way of describing how they did it, I sure would appreciate it!

Along with an area that you can show protect the revenue by allowing very controlled access to certain named persons.... You will find most jurisdictions will want a separation between the occupancies, with a restaurant being Assembly and the distillery being Industrial/F1 or hazard/H3... you will likely be required to have a 2 or 3 hour fire separation, respectively. NFPA 1 chapter 6.1.14 http://codesonline.nfpa.org/a/c.ref/ID020101110939/chapter (go to 6.1.14.4) Table 6.1.14.4.1( http://codesonline.nfpa.org/imagepop.php?id=2012_tab_NFPA-101_6.1.14.4.1_b_

While I feel 100% confident that it is 150 total, I would do your drawings and proposals to the city as the more restrictive 120 total.

Ph? I have been reading a lot ( you know, prior to getting our DSP, a lot of thumb twiddling) are you adding Dunder/Backset or Citric acid? I have heard of some use of debranching enzymes also..

It was told to me that you can purchase a T-Bill for the amount of the bond, and give the TTB the number for the T-Bill, and they just put a 'hold' on it... may be an option...

Read the post previous to yours...

several places have something about this, here is one from the 2006 IBC(exemption 5): SECTION 307 HIGH-HAZARD GROUP H [F] 307.1 High-hazard Group H. High-hazard Group H occupancy includes, among others, the use of a building or structure, or a portion thereof, that involves the manufacturing, processing, generation or storage of materials that constitute a physical or health hazard in quantities in excess of those allowed in control areas constructed and located as required in Section 414. Hazardous uses are classified in Groups H-1, H-2, H-3, H-4 and H-5 and shall be in accordance with this section, the requirements of Section 415 and the International Fire Code. Exceptions: The following shall not be classified in Group H, but shall be classified in the occupancy that they most nearly resemble: 1. Buildings and structures that contain not more than the maximum allowable quantities per control area of hazardous materials as shown in Tables 307.1(1) and 307.1(2), provided that such buildings are maintained in accordance with the International Fire Code. 5. Closed piping containing flammable or combustible liquids or gases utilized for the operation of machinery or equipment. (if you still was a closed system, the parrot, cutting valve, etc all not exposed to the atmoshere) Here is another from 2008 NFP30: Chapter 9 Storage of Liquids in Containers — 9.1.4 This chapter shall not apply to the following: (1) Containers, intermediate bulk containers, and portable tanks that are used in operations areas, as covered by Chapter 17 (2) Liquids in the fuel tanks of motor vehicles, aircraft, boats, or portable or stationary engines (3) Beverages where packaged in individual containers that do not exceed 1.3 gal (5 L) capacity ... (7) Distilled spirits and wines in wooden barrels or casks So this one, the same one that exempts bottles in a liquor store and wooden casks, also covers "Containers, intermediate bulk containers, and portable tanks that are used in operations areas"

M is mercantile, not just liquor store, if you have a gift shop as part of your tasting room and sell things at retail, one would think that you would need M, and not A(assembly of people) or B(business/office) occupancy, but this is all most likely a non issue if you are past the point of getting your local approval for the distilling portion and it's F/H occupancy..

Might want to talk to Roundhouse Spirits... He has some good stories about his experience with hsi 2 gas fired stills....

Agree with Rick 110%

My local folks are still pushing that barrels are not exempt, the fire folks say OK, then the building folks say 'it is in the fire code, not the building code, so you are extra hazard'.. From what I read, 'in-process' liquids are also exempt from the MAQ's... But then again if you make a control area H-x, MAQ's go out the window and you can do whatever the heck you want...... except have more than 3 people in the room, LOL... I hear a lot of distillers say that that occupancy limit only counts when the still is not operatiing, but have yet to see that in code...

Here is what HVAC uses, 15% Silver...: $85 for 1lb... http://www.amazon.com/Wolverine-Silver-Brazing-15-Silvaloy/dp/B008AE4NBU This is for copper to copper, brazing steel or other things you can use the other rods... but we are talking copper to copper, just like HVAC.

If you are doing malt whiskey, the barley husks are great filter media, a perforated false bottom works just great... just have one stainless tote with a false bottom for 'lautering' If you are doing Bourbon, the corn changes things, so get one of these LSS's: yes, maybe it is $20k for the LSS, but 300-600g batch per day is a $10k in final product revenue a day..

Obviously that depends upon the state you are in and the laws... Here in FL we have a bill in the works, but the big money distributors and stores have whittled it back to 2 bottles per calendar year, which if you are a tourist destination like we are is not so bad. WA is 2 bottles per day I think, which helps keep a local eclectic crowd frequenting your place... That being said, if you have a decent on-premise sales law, it could start of 90/10, but if you make good stuff, you could flip that and have 90 going to the distributor real quick... Or if you start with a big system and have the volume to keep your gift shop stocked and still send 90% to a distributor, why not start with that... bottom line.. when you can make enough to distribute, you do it...

Curious... what did you end up selecting?

and Blackheart, my friend the pump distributor rep is in your area tomorrow, I am trying to get him to come see your setup for me....

spend a few years in with the geeks at homebrewtalk.com electric brewing forum, and you sill see some cool stuff... lose yourself for a couple hours or weeks at Kal's site: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com Here is my brewery controller, that will work good for running two stills automatically. The display is any web browser, I have an iPad on the front now:

find a local homebrew club and find out who the geeky electric brewer is and have him show you his RIMS system..... if you want a large RIMS, http://conical-fermenter.com/products/mash-tuns/ (scroll down a ways, this thing takes a 24" long 6KW element that is ultra-low watt density) I have one of these that I am building a controller for the local brewpub. I have a homemade 14" 4500W one can keep a 15 gal beer mash within a few tenths of a degree for an hour, ramp up or down, whatever you want.... side benefit is you can get a super-clear runoff if you are not fermenting on the grain...

http://www.norit.com/files/documents/ROX08_rev8.pdf http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/catalog/product/view/id/1781/ a gallon will last you a long time, 5 gal if you don't want to re-activate it at 500 degrees in the wifes oven (after washing in water, you don't want to go boom, do you?)

brazing is pretty much silver soldering if you are talking about the same way that HVAC copper is brazed together, and the cost of that silver solder would make a TIG welder purchase really attractive...

Ask and ye shall receive... more than you thought you wanted to know... Will not only tell you how long to a temp for a given volume of water and wattage, but how much energy and $$$ it will take... http://gnipsel.com/b...ectric-heat.xls edit: Oh, and before someone asks how to calculate the 'efficiency' field that is prepopulated at 95% with a more accurate value, I will answer it... you reverse engineer it by heating some water and taking measurements...

I would like to taste something in palo santo that Sam uses at dogfish for beer... http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/11/24/081124fa_fact_bilger FYI, most oak is poisonous too, not just poison oak... partial body rash from cutting up a neighbors tree after a hurricane knocked it over in '04... went out in the sun before it was 100% gone and it turned into full body rash... Not pretty... and to top that, once as a very young child used scrub oak as TP in the woods...

I am with John, and my pump guy is too. Use VFD on PD pump and output restriction on Cetrifugal pumps.. My pump guy also travels the country and picks me up small batch spirits ;-) He can put together special pumps/carts/drives, and give advice for pumps you already have, he has really helped out the breweries in our area... Jeff Allen Depco Pumps www.depcopump.com jeffa@depcopump.com (727) 446-1656 2145 Calumet St. Clearwater, Fl USA 33765

Thanks, I wondered what the terminology was, I knew I did not want to go down the road of doing anything un-cordial, you know, like threatening to take my ball and go home.. this gives a great alternative to at least try!.....