Roger

Probrewer.com has a decent forum on chilling and refrigeration. Perhaps post your questions there for more specific info.

craft: [kraft, krahft] Show IPA noun, plural crafts or for 5, 8, craft, verb noun 1. an art, trade, or occupation requiring special skill, especially manual skill: the craft of a mason. 2. skill; dexterity: The silversmith worked with great skill. The only exception I took with anything in this whole issue was as related to the word "craft". If you harm the definition, you harm it's viability as a price point driver. The fact that a distillers production output may be "small" is not the same thing as said production being "craft". But one can alway hope that the customer is clueless. Yeah, that's the ticket.

Nobody gets me No, I am not a farmer, nor do I intend to be. And yes I love technology and innovation. I invented and put in place the custom sewing equipment in the garment company I started 24 years ago, and made a lot of money producing hundreds of thousands of garments, all Made in The USA. But I would never have considered that craft". Our "hook" was the Made in The USA. But we as "distillers" can't rely on the USA branding to have a significant marketing impact. Instead we must rely on the "craft" concept. And why? Because that "added value" as perceived by the potential customer is what allows the products we all produce, to command a premium price point. We can all profess that we make or will make the best darn shine ever to come out of them thar hills, but the reality is, the story of it coming out of the "hills" is what makes your price point. In this industry, we are all responsible for all of us. And while unfortunately there will always be people in every industry who will chase each other to the bottom, at the very least it should be done behind closed doors. This so the general public doesn't think that all "craft" distillers, are automatons looking for the quickest dollar, with the least effort. It won't take long for the industry to become over saturated, once automation overtakes craft. Then it will just be a price battle. But you can't stop regress. I mean progress.

Sweet. Can you supply the chicken to peck the keys on the computer as well ? Craft. It's definition seems to mean different things to different people. But what the hell. I guess it's better than hiring Chinese children to man the pots .

I have a friend who is a metalurgist in the aerospace industry, and he said that the issue is that 304 and 316 are because they are not specific formulas, they are in fact ranges. The general consensus is that Chinese SS is always n the low side of the formulas on the anti corrosive "more expensive" compounds, and thus Chinese 316 is closer to US 304.

I've had the opportunity to interact to some degree with Ralph at Tuthilltown in the development of my Distillery in NY. He has been very helpful and knowledgeable about the process as well as instrumental in the legislative process in NY, which has led it to the virtual forefront of relaxed state laws for our craft. He will no doubt continue to bring good things to the industry with his association with ACDA. Now if we could just get him to work on Direct Internet Sales....

Sorry, I misspoke on the Ebitda. I meant to say 1x - Gross, or 5x Ebitda And for a startup in this industry, there is no value in IP or Branding. Those items only have value after they have been proven and quantified.

You could work this backwards. Estimate your 3rd year realistic EBITDA, and assume that your biz is then worth 1x of that number. Then calculate how much you want to give up, based on that parameter, while keeping in mind that your investor will more than likely dilute that number by the amount of years it will take you to generate a real return to them, I.e. 7-10% interest on their money, while waiting. This "pure number" would be more easily sold if you were already in operation, vs if you were paper, in which case you could expect savvy investors to dilute this number by as much as 50% due to the unknown Very rough example: expected 3rd year EBITDA - $1,000,000 . Willing to give up 25% = gross expected investment -$250000, less 3 years 7% return on dead money - $52,000 = $200,000 investment less dilution due to risk factors such as "unknown" = $100,000 for 25%. Rough boilerplate biz sales / values. This unless of course you can "charm" some clueless locals to invest a disproportionate amount because they like the idea of investing in the industry, regardless of the actual or potential outcome

Gingershine

Thanks to all for the advise I should have been a bit more precise, i was specifically concerned with the condensate return more than anything, to move it back to the space under the boiler room without having to pump it. I have no prob putting a pump under the boiler room floor to bring the condensate back "up" to the boiler and tank, but just dont want a condensate pump on the distillery floor. I say this "assuming" that I would have to pump my condensate, as it would not have sufficent pressure to move up 8-10' then lateral 40'. Agreed that water and active steam are best placed overhead, but it sure would be pretty to have it all hidden from view and let the stills stand on their own. Although there is something to be said about the look of "complexity" for the show.

Has anyone had success or failure with laying steam and water pipes in floor trenches, to and from thier boiler / water room ? For example, laying pipes in the floor trench drain, suspended off the bottom , or in a separate parallel trench with a closed top,etc ? Pics would be great if anyone has them Thanks again Roger

We are pouring our floor next week, will now build a galvanized system into the center and slope entire floor into it from both sides. Thanks !

What has anyone used for trench floor drains, that they are happy, or unhappy with? Plastic, fiberglass, galvanized, stainless ? I Thanks Roger

What has anyone used for trench floor drains, that they are happy, or unhappy with? Plastic, fiberglass, galvanized, stainless ? I Thanks Roger

What has anyone used for trench floor drains, that they are happy, or unhappy with? Plastic, fiberglass, galvanized, stainless ? I Thanks Roger

I for one hold out very little hope for the voracity and value of the proliferation of "Honey BooBoo" award venues that seem to be popping up for spirits and wines. I know for a fact that a recent "gold medal award" was won by a distiller (not one that I have seen post on these boards) who didn't even have his still hooked up at the time his entry's were sent in. I have no way of knowing what was actually in the bottles, but it wasn't something from his production, and I can't help but wonder how prolific that practice is.

Thanks for all the feedback. Now I am even more conflicted ~

I am interested in hearing what anyone has used for flooring, over their concrete that has of has not worked. Pros / Cons of just leaving it raw with a sealer, etc...or using industrial tile, ceramic, epoxy paint... Thanks

Great stuff . Thanks !

Just the facts ma'am, nothing but the facts.

I have not done a rum mash, but I have researched the process in depth, and my take on the process is that it is much like the old saying in computer programming "GIGO". Garbage in, garbage out. It appears that unlike grain and fruit mash production, wherein your "sugar content" is basically just a function of the quality / ripeness / starch content of the raw product that goes into the eventual mash, rum production is instead based on ingredients that have in a lot of cases been virtually stripped of their sugar. In fact I read somewhere that sugar producers have become so adept at removing the sugar from their cane juice, that they are having to pay people to haul away what is essentially now worthless molasses, which was once the life blood of the rum industry. I.e. the molasses you put in, will directly relate to the ABV you get out. This of course will change to some degree with yeast differences, and temperature control of your fermenters, but someone who knows more about it than me can probably fill you in on those variables. So my guess on your question would be that "it depends" on how much you are willing to pay, for any given Brix content of what you are putting in. It would seem like you would then balance that variable materials cost with the cost of time and energy to produce your end product from said Brix. But hopefully a rum expert will chime in.

Sorry, misread it to say your capital buildout was the initial $400-500g. But even if it is $1-1.5mil, the question remains essentially the same.

How did you come up with the $1,000,000- per year outflow for 5 years ? It would be very difficult to burn that much cash, given that you expect inflow from un-aged spirits. Don't give up a bunch of equity based on an errant front loaded cash burn calculation. Best of luck.

My take away from that article is that big companies are pretending to be little so they can be "hip", and little companies are pretending to be big so distributors will mass market their products. Pretty sorry excuse for advertising theory.

. It's funny, all the while you're saying I'm not likely to get any useful information from my question, you keep giving me (and future forum users) incredibly useful information. Yep, that's what this board is all about, the flow of "free information". Now you're catching on