Roger

The distillery that just exploded in KY was direct fire. You can see it in their facebook pics. Regardless you need to constantly move enough air through your facility to eliminate the buildup of vapors, direct fire or not. It is especially problematic in the north when it's 30 below zero outside, but you still have to do it.

Joe - as a pilot, I can tell you that you don't have the flying thing quite figured out either I think you might be confusing issues about flight by not taking into account inertia, as related to the energy (hp) needed to get any object moving from a stand still, the effect of friction on the ground, and then things like the decreased density of air at altitude.. Not to mention things like the stoichiometric / adiabatic variables of said less dense air at altitude which affects the amount of fuel being burned, and it's effect on hp output. Back to the boiler, I can't honestly see how there would be any significant difference between heating liquid to 300 (with chemicals that would keep it as a liquid) than heating the same amount (lbs) of water through steam phase. I believe there are various types of equipment in industry that use hot oil baths to transfer heat, and maybe even some stills. But I don't think they give you any energy advantage and they also require you to maintain pumps that operate under extreme temps, that degrade seals and motor integrity, if taken to high temp. I also don't get the theory that it takes X-BTU's extra to convert water to vapor. i would also wonder at what temp your guy thinks this magic happens. The header on my low temp steam boiler reads about 240 degrees at 5 psi. Does he consider that liquid or steam ?

As Per sudzie small runs, and my previous observations estimate: 88lbs grain /56 = 1.57 bush x 5.2 = 8.16 pg It's easier to just say 55# - 5 pg. Easy rule of thumb, and every thing extra is free money If you are only at 3+/- you are probably not getting good conversions. What's your starting and ending SG ? Generally the bushel rule is based on the amount of weight in a corn bushel. Using that number in lbs of other grains gets you pretty close to the same number. The max is corn, and I beleive rice is right up there as well. there Is a slight drop off with other grains due to the % of unfermentable proteins per lb. of course if you use things like Wheat flour without the husk, your yield then goes up accordingly per lb, due to less protein per lb.

5.2 +/- @56lbs.

Our twin 450 liter stills run off a 350k low pressure steam boiler. If we crank them up at the same time, it is roughly 45 minutes to heads. We shut the boiler off completely when not in use. Even the pilot light. It takes about the same time to heat the system up, as it does to fill the stills. The best thing about steam is that it's basically idiot proof, with virtually no moving parts, except a condensate return pump to keep the boiler full, run off an external float valve/switch. I would always opt for easier vs complex, especially when there is no known way to squeeze substantially more btu's out of water vs. steam. There of course might be some transfer time differences between water vs. steam but it's not really conceivable that one form of heating unit (properly insulated) should perform substantially different from another, to heat x lbs of liquid. I think your steam guy may be confusing lbs and gallons, with cu.ft. of steam, because there is virtually no way to heat a gallon of water with significantly less BTU's than a like "liquid gallon" of steam. It's just fuel in, converted to heat, and Delta-T out. However this does remind me that I should insulate my condensate return tank.

How many gallon beer for you OG? Regardless, add some beta on the way down

To cold. Rum yeast is bred to operate between 85-94. Bacardi runs at an average 90

Actually, ethanol based alcohol will not make you go blind or die ( unless you drink to a blood alcohol level that is toxic). The blindness and death stories associated with "moonshine" and/or alcohol with no head cuts (other than some stone fruit issues) are in fact just old wives tales. Back in the days of prohibition when alcohol was hard to come by, a lot of "rectifiers" sprung up around the county who were running denatured alcohol through homemade stills. A lot of low proof boilers couldn't extract the poisons that were intentionally put in it, so a lot of people ended up.drinking poison. So yes people did go blind or die, but never from regular ethanol, even without head and tail cuts. That just gives you a headache.

It depends on what you are want to be when you grow up. If you are primarily interested in selling a well branded good product on a wholesale level, then one item would probably be best, as you could commit all your time and resources to that one thing. If however you aspirations are more along the lines of a destination experience for direct retail sales, more products will bring you more sales. That also depends on your state laws.

We also have a non-contiguous 2nd location. We have 12 miles between facilities, and it was approved without a problem. However when we also asked for a non-contiguous winery, we were denied because 10 miles is the limit for viniculture designation ( even though we are not in a designated area).

What I found most amazing is that he appears to have a window in his mothers basement.

Another thng we have found is there appears to be some difference in flavor profile when cooking on the grain in a pot still, vs a continuous still operation. For example in a continuous column the mash is heated for a very short time, just long enough for the appropriate alcohols to be pulled off, and it It then falls away. Conversely in a pot still where the entire wash is cooked for hours, you are also cooking all of the bits, parts and oils of the unfermented grain, and imparting some of that "over cooked" flavor into the process. Not that there is anything wrong with that, it's just something to consider. Of course some of those flavors may carry over and some may not, likewise some may end up in the heads or tails cuts and subsequently be removed, but they are in the wash, and they do change in flavor and intensity, given the variable processes of distillation. I like many others have also tried a variety of ways to lauter / sparge corn mash and it is very difficult to do on a large scale, however degermed corn seems to alleviate a lot of these issues. I actually called the TTB a while back and asked them if there were any prohibitions against using degermed corn in any product that required X percentage of corn in its standard of identity, or if it required a formula approval. After explaining to the person what degermed corn was, and why it was sometimes used, she said she saw no reason why it mattered to the TTB as it was still just corn. Note that this is not legal advise, because quite frankly the TTB seems to change its mind on many things, depending on who you talk to, but I don't think its a problem, and it does lend itself to a smooth distillate. Prost

The use of various grains at different percentages in different manners is the real beauty of craft. Many grains are processed in a variety of manners, to bring about a specifically desired result. Some are pre rolled and steamed, some are degermed, some are lautered post ferment, and some are cooked on grain. Every end result will be different, based on what went in, and in what manner. Some differences will be subtle, and some will be less so But keep in mind that most people are in business to make money, and that sometimes means that processes are set based on the bottom line, and or ease of production. In some cases because a specific technology or practice wasn't available years ago, a lot of the old brands set their flavor profiles, and it's now hard for them to change the flavors that people "expect" from them. Too bad. Craft can however be noble and quick, and you shouldn't hesitate to bring to market something other than yet another story about somebody's Great Great Granpappy who was wrinkled. And no. I'm not telling you how we do ours Prost

The term "aged less than " was a play on words based on the requirement that you could "understate the age" . It was a clever marketing strategy that was used in a manner adverse to the intent of the regulations. As for intent, who know, or cares why it as done, and who approved it. It just needs to be corrected going forward.

I traded emails with C. Cowdrey about this very issue, some time ago, as follows: Roger, Distillers tell me the doubler 'polishes' the spirit. Specifically, it removes some remaining low boilers not removed sufficiently by the column. You are right that it is unnecessary for achieving proof but is necessary for removing a few undesirable congeners. The doubler is a pot still. A conventional doubler uses fully condensed distillate from the column while a thumper takes the uncondensed vapor and uses its energy for flash condensation, which makes the thumping noise. Back in the 60s and 70s, when everyone was cutting costs to the bone, many distilleries stopped doubling but they didn't like the results. At present, every major distillery doubles except for Blanton's 1792, which doubles most of the time but doesn't for some brands. I hope this is helpful. Chuck Charles K. Cowdery Made and Bottled in Kentucky

Video looks good, Just keep in mind that it's all about energy and equipment efficiency when you are working on an industrial scale. If you add more water than you really need , you will use more fermenter space, still space and energy to extract your finish product. A 25-30 gallon beer gives you the best bang for the buck, but it can get a bit thick in the beginning.

You could consider buying a canary, and if he starts whistling off key, you would know it's time to open the window

75 gallons for 150lbs would be more than enough, especially with a fine grind. 1/2gallon h20 - to 1 lb grain. This is pretty close to a 30 gallon beer (Bushel/56lbs grain - 30 gallons h20)

I for one feel far more comfortable taking advise and direction from someone who is actually in the trade, producing both products and equipment, than someone who has a $80,000- piece of wallpaper.

Dehners process seems much like how they make flaked corn, and/or run continuous cooking operations. In house you only have to "steam" the ground corn momentarily to gelatinized it. Thereafter it can cool down quickly to the 155+/- range allowing you to add your alpha/beta and let it have at the starch chains. In the case of the flaked, you put it in dry, bring it up to 155ish at a 30 gallon beer level (total grain blend as desired) and add your chosen alpha/beta and or malt. I was at the flaked corn facility I listed above, a short time ago and it was amazing how fast, and at what volume they were pushing corn through a system that would steam / gelatinize and flatten it, then dry it. You could back a pick up under the chute and fill the bed in minutes. Of course it would all fly out on the trip home, but you get the picture.

You can pump the reflux back up, but make sure you ventilate the pit, as any escaping ethanol vapors will collect in it.

Don't know about your yield, but one reason your boil might be going up and down is because you may have set your boiler tank refill float too low. If the tank has to get quite low before it replenishes, it will draw in a disproportionate amount of cold water, which cools down the remainder. Then the whole boiler tank has to heat back up. The same thing can happen with a conventional boiler if the condensate return float is set too low to the water fill line on the boiler itself. Just a thought.

These are good people . http://patobrienfeeds.com

I have heard the argument before that flaked corn is too expensive to consider, but i haven't found that to be necessarily true. The last time I looked at numbers on a given day for flaked, vs raw dent, the price differential was less than 10%, exclusive of the energy saved by not having to gelatinize.

300 gal x8% wash = 24 gallons of 100% = 48 proof gallons potential. Estimate 75% real yield = 36 expected proof gallons = 45 gallons of bottle proof (40%ABV) = 225 bottles per day x $22- per bottle x 5 day week = $25,000- per week production x 50 weeks = $1,250,000 X two runs per day = $2,500,000 per year production with two guys ? I think you're gonna need a bigger boat.