Tasting "room" requirements

[johnny_teapot]

Is there anything stating that a tasting room must be a physical room separate from the rest of the space? i.e. could we just designate an area near the entrance as the "room"?

[Jedd Haas]

This is highly dependent on your state and local laws; particularly whether they allow one in the first place. As far as the TTB is concerned, you can use a painted line to separate your bonded premises and general premises, as long as the demarcation is clearly marked.

[bluestar]

This is highly dependent on your state and local laws; particularly whether they allow one in the first place. As far as the TTB is concerned, you can use a painted line to separate your bonded premises and general premises, as long as the demarcation is clearly marked.

Actually, I think that last comment could be misleading. While it is true that bonded and general premises can be separated that way, it all depends on what is done in the general premises and how everything is secured. The primary consideration will be the security of the revenue, and since access of the general public in normal course of business to the bonded area could be considered a security issue, I doubt you could have the tasting room not separated from the bonded area if it is a publicly accessible tasting room.

[coop]

That is why our tasting room is separated by walls and doors and not a part of the "Bonded Area" which we had to clearly define in a drawing that had to be submitted to the TTB. Coop

[bluestar]

That is why our tasting room is separated by walls and doors and not a part of the "Bonded Area" which we had to clearly define in a drawing that had to be submitted to the TTB. Coop

Same for us. Where I have seen the separation by a line (actually a picket fence) is where the bonded area is inside another manufacturing area, in this case a brewery, that is otherwise secured from the public: Michigan Brewing.

[IrishRosie]

Can it be outside on a deck?

[grehorst]

Can it be outside on a deck?

I think that would be up to your local authorities. I don't think the TTB really cares where your tasting room is as long as it's separated from the bonded area. We have a patio off our Tasting Room and as long as we're not on public area (sidewalk) the city doesn't seem concerned.

[bluestar]

I think that would be up to your local authorities. I don't think the TTB really cares where your tasting room is as long as it's separated from the bonded area. We have a patio off our Tasting Room and as long as we're not on public area (sidewalk) the city doesn't seem concerned.

NOPE! You can not have a tasting room (if by that you mean a room where you can taste and make retail sales) in the distillery premises, general or bonded. You can be in the same building, and a physical separation may or may not be required, but that part of the building can not be part of either the general premises or bonded premises of the distillery. I know this because I had to redesign my facility layout per the TTB precisely because of this issue. And they specifically said to me they have run into many small distillers that confuse this issue: no retail sales in the distillery, general or bonded premises, period!

[grehorst]

Now I'm confused. As a distiller, I only know of two kinds of space associated with my distillery- Bonded and General. Are you saying the space can't be associated with the distillery at all?! We have a distillery, expanded to add a tasting room and my understanding is it is considered General premises, and all approved by the TTB. In fact by state laws I cannot have a tasting room that isn't at the distillery. Is there some 3rd class of distillery space I'm not aware of?

[Palmetto Coast]

It is my belief, after speaking with the TTB, that you just need a separate entrance to the outside. The entrance to the distillery "warehouse" (bonded) can not be the same entrance that they use to enter the retail/tasting (unbonded/general) area. In effect, it makes it its own separate space. Here is an exceprt from the TTB agent -

"...completely separate the two areas and hence take that section off distillery premise. You could also use a solid wall with a glass window, but again it has to be floor to ceiling. The reason for this is that the regulations don’t really allow for a tasting room or retail on premise, so in order to make that happen, you need to make the division complete. Also, you need to make sure that the tasting room would have direct outside access..."

[grehorst]

It is my belief, after speaking with the TTB, that you just need a separate entrance to the outside. The entrance to the distillery "warehouse" (bonded) can not be the same entrance that they use to enter the retail/tasting (unbonded/general) area. In effect, it makes it its own separate space. Here is an exceprt from the TTB agent -

"...completely separate the two areas and hence take that section off distillery premise. You could also use a solid wall with a glass window, but again it has to be floor to ceiling. The reason for this is that the regulations don’t really allow for a tasting room or retail on premise, so in order to make that happen, you need to make the division complete. Also, you need to make sure that the tasting room would have direct outside access..."

We have all this. But we also have a door connecting the two spaces. Not a problem.

[clearwaterbrewer]

half of the distilleries I toured in Colorado had no physical separation such as a door or a wall... when I asked where their bonded area was, they said the whole building was bonded area...

[Kristian]

We had a visit from the TTB and they are requiring a lockable separation between our tasting room and bonded area. The tasting room is not bonded because you cannot have consumption in your bonded area. So I imagine that the rest of Colorado will have to address this soon.

[bluestar]

We had a visit from the TTB and they are requiring a lockable separation between our tasting room and bonded area. The tasting room is not bonded because you cannot have consumption in your bonded area. So I imagine that the rest of Colorado will have to address this soon.

Yup. Dat's the law. We got called out on that BEFORE permit was approved, and modified our layout accordingly. At the time, they acknowledged in discussion that MANY small distilleries don't realize that you can not taste or sell retail out of the DSP proper. At least, that is what we were told.

[clearwaterbrewer]

We had a visit from the TTB and they are requiring a lockable separation between our tasting room and bonded area. The tasting room is not bonded because you cannot have consumption in your bonded area. So I imagine that the rest of Colorado will have to address this soon.

Yours was one of the ones we visited in October, around GABF time. It was very nice and we enjoyed the tour, so much that we are going to steal one of your ideas, we are going to use my future father-in-law to be the tour guide ;-)

In the other distilleries, however, we did like the ability to view the equipment while tasting... so I guess we will research legal partitions to balance the ambiance and the law...

[Ben B]

Did you guys run into certain requirements for the walls separating your tasting room from the rest of your operation?

I'm in the middle of the fire/zoning process and have been told that the tasting room would be considered A-2 occupancy, with the distillery being F-1. I'm assuming once I get a fire suppression system in, the standard 1-hour walls would suffice?

[bluestar]

Did you guys run into certain requirements for the walls separating your tasting room from the rest of your operation?

I'm in the middle of the fire/zoning process and have been told that the tasting room would be considered A-2 occupancy, with the distillery being F-1. I'm assuming once I get a fire suppression system in, the standard 1-hour walls would suffice?

Yes, another issue often overlooked: that retail space with tasting bar is considered public, so it must be an A or B occupancy and not an F occupancy.

By the way, the issue really is that the sales are being made in the distillery, not that somebody tasted something. Tasting in the distillery NOT with the intent of sale can be considered an industrial activity. It is a gray area. I know I went to one distillery where the tasting was done in the distillery bonded area (right next to the stills) but you could not purchase there. You had to go to a separate retail room for that.

[Roger]

We have been advised that the tasting room, is M, under the IBC, I.e. a liquor store, and further, "tasting" is really noting but an ancillary or accessory activity associated with the sales of merchandise. Especially in so far as many people don't even taste what they buy at that time.

[bluestar]

We have been advised that the tasting room, is M, under the IBC, I.e. a liquor store, and further, "tasting" is really noting but an ancillary or accessory activity associated with the sales of merchandise. Especially in so far as many people don't even taste what they buy at that time.

Yes, that is true here as well if it is only "tastes" as defined by our state permit: up to 3x 1/4 ounce servings. However, our license also allows sales for on premise consumption, in other words, we can also be a bar and sell for example 1 ounce pours or cocktails. In that case, the liquor store designation does not apply, you are a bar, and then your IBC classification changes.

[Roger]

Yes, that is true here as well if it is only "tastes" as defined by our state permit: up to 3x 1/4 ounce servings. However, our license also allows sales for on premise consumption, in other words, we can also be a bar and sell for example 1 ounce pours or cocktails. In that case, the liquor store designation does not apply, you are a bar, and then your IBC classification changes.

True,True, as they say in the islands, however depending on your facility size, and the size of your "on premiss bar" in relation to your total size (I.e. 10% or less per floor) you may have an ancillary carve out for IBC purposes, provided you do not have an H designation on that floor. Example: 2000 sq ft distillery, 1000 square feet tasting and retail, 300 sq feet bar/lounge.

[clearwaterbrewer]

M is mercantile, not just liquor store, if you have a gift shop as part of your tasting room and sell things at retail, one would think that you would need M, and not A(assembly of people) or B(business/office) occupancy, but this is all most likely a non issue if you are past the point of getting your local approval for the distilling portion and it's F/H occupancy..

[mkatrincic_NC]

Realize this conversation is from mid-year 2013 but would appreciate perspectives/advice.

Being in NC, we're not allowed to sell our spirit in an onsite retail/tasting area. We are allowed tastings and we are planning to sell merchandise. Our hope is that the restrictions of selling spirit on site, post-tour may change. There is momentum in other controlled states and we're supporting the NC effort to prove out the revenue and tax opportunities to the state.

As we are working through our site plan with that in mind, we're trying to think through how to delineate for the potential opportunity to sell on site.

Appreciate help validating the following:

- Bonded area will include the still, all manufacturing equipment, filling, labeling and office space. Window walls (floor to ceiling). TTB security locks in place.

- Retail/Tasting Area will have bathroom and direct outside access

The bonded area does not have outside access in the current site plan. We can work with the architect to build it in but it may cost us. Our plan was to move finished product pallets out of bonded area through the retail space to get outside for shipment. Is this do-able/feasible?

Thanks in advance.