Cold Liquor Tank (CLT) Setup

[HedgeBird]

I am in the process of adding a Cold Liquor Tank (CLT) to my setup that will be used to cool our mash tun and fermenters (and possibly to chill filter). I will be using a 300 gallon stainless tank that contains a stainless coil as the CLT. Cold glycol from an existing installed chiller will be constantly circulated thought the coil in the tank to keep the 300 gallons of water in the tank cold.

The part I have questions about is how I circulate the now chilled water though the mash tun and fermenters and back into the CLT. Is there a specific type of pump I can use that will automatically start pumping when one of the thermostatically controlled valves on the fermenter jackets opens, and then automatically stops if all the valves close again? Or do I need to use a pump that is constantly running and plumb in a bypass for the water the flow though if none of the valves are open?

My understanding is that most glycol loops are constantly running and have bypass lines for the times when nothing is calling for cooling and the valves are all closed, but I am hoping their might be another option. Is there a pump that automatically stops pumping when the output pressure gets to a certain PSI and then starts up again when a valve opens and allows the pressure to drop?

I hope that all makes sense!

[HedgeBird]

After doing some more of my own research it looks like many home water pumps have a pressure switch built in. (apparently I have been on municipal water too long and forgot most homes would need a pump like I described above for their wells)

Seems like this might be a good option: ?

http://www.amazon.com/Hallmark-Industries-MA0345X-6-Shallow-Pressure/dp/B012NBE0UY/ref=pd_sim_sbs_328_9?ie=UTF8&dpID=41KXJO22GeL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160%2C160_&refRID=0Y0GX5R1S2TY4BTQCDN9

[Tom Lenerz]

I'd highly recommend finding someone who specializes in what you are talking about to design and build it for you. We've been working with a local company, more specifically the guy who runs it, for almost 30 years and his expertise and experience has helped us immensely.

If you have an existing chiller, it seems like it would be easier to pipe off of that directly. Assuming your CLT is just water, depending on the temp of your glycol, freezing could be a major issue.

Make sure your jackets, piping, tubing, etc.. are all rated for the pressures your pump is pumping. Also adding an expansion tank for warming water is a must.

Also you will need to have a high point with a bleeder valve to get all the air out of your system. They make something, can't remember what it is called, that will bleed out the occasional air bubble.

[Stumpy's]

HedgeBird,

Here is the pump we use....it's a cheap one from harbor freight so we bought the 2 year warranty. We have 2, 1,500 gallon tanks buried outside for our closed loop cooling system and this is what we use to push water through our mash tun and fermenters.

http://www.harborfreight.com/1-hp-shallow-well-pump-with-stainless-steel-housing-920-gph-69302.html

The reason we opted for this one is because it already has a (very small) pressure tank built in.

Adam

[HedgeBird]

I'd highly recommend finding someone who specializes in what you are talking about to design and build it for you. We've been working with a local company, more specifically the guy who runs it, for almost 30 years and his expertise and experience has helped us immensely.

Generally if I can do it myself, I do do it myself; and it seems this project should be well within my capabilities. One of my competitive advantages over other start-up distilleries is that I own a Pex crimper and can do (most of) my own plumbing.

If you have an existing chiller, it seems like it would be easier to pipe off of that directly. Assuming your CLT is just water, depending on the temp of your glycol, freezing could be a major issue.

I am still considering plumbing the fermenters into the existing glycol loop as you suggest. The mash tun will almost certainly need to be on the CLT as we need to crash cool that quickly with a large volume of cool liquid and the chiller only supplies a slow steady stream of chilled glycol. The chiller is set above freezing so that should not be an issue.

Make sure your jackets, piping, tubing, etc.. are all rated for the pressures your pump is pumping. Also adding an expansion tank for warming water is a must.

I will need to make sure the pressure switch can operate at 10 PSI as my tank jackets are only rated for 15PSI. Additionally I plan to put the jacket control valves on the input side of the jackets so that when the valves do close the jackets remain un-pressurized. The output from the jackets would go back into the open to the atmosphere CLT. I will also make sure to add Pressure Relief Valves to each jacket just in case something goes wrong, or the return pipe inadvertently gets clogged, bent, plugged, etc.

Also you will need to have a high point with a bleeder valve to get all the air out of your system. They make something, can't remember what it is called, that will bleed out the occasional air bubble.

That is not something I had though of! I used an air bleeder valve on my dephlagmater so I know what your talking about and actually have at least one here in the shop.

Thank you for your feedback Tom!

[philf34]

Talk with MG Thermal Consulting- Mike Gronski he is a member on here

[HedgeBird]

HedgeBird,

Here is the pump we use....it's a cheap one from harbor freight so we bought the 2 year warranty. We have 2, 1,500 gallon tanks buried outside for our closed loop cooling system and this is what we use to push water through our mash tun and fermenters.

http://www.harborfreight.com/1-hp-shallow-well-pump-with-stainless-steel-housing-920-gph-69302.html

The reason we opted for this one is because it already has a (very small) pressure tank built in.

Adam

I notice that unit had a minimum PSI of 20, so I may need to replace the pressure switch if I went with that unit. Did you have any issues with over-pressure on your closed loop when this pump kicks in?

My understanding is that the pressure tank basically operates as a reserve of pressure to keep the pump from cycling as often. As far as expanding and warming water, the only part of the loop that will ever be closed and able to build pressure would be in PEX (good to 150+ PSI) so I am not sure thats really a concern for me either?

[Humulus]

I concur with Philf34...Mike of MG Thermal is a great guy and very knowledgeable!

[MG Thermal Consulting]

I have a cut sheet on a control valve that is spring operated, 2 way or three way with sensor that you install somewhere in piping or tank to sense target temp.

You can can all kinds of high end valves that are controlled electrically that perform similar functions.

The catalog has several piping schematics that help.

Send me over a request with your email and I'll shoot it over.

Have a client that that just ordered a chiller system with dual settings, for 25 or 45F so he can run it for cold filtration for a day then switch back over to 45F for normal operation. A little bit of an adder (a separate control card for the microprocessor), but it's cheaper than a separate chiller for just cold filtering. I believe I sent him the same valves.

For those that want as much computer control as possible, Grundfos makes a pump up to 7 1/2 HP that has an option a VFD mounted right on the motor, so you can control your flow through the pump.

Good luck.

Mike