Still_Holler

From the TTB proofing website is seems you lab distill your obscured spirit, find the true proof and then continue with gauging using TTB density tables as for any other spirit. I just lab distilled some sugar added liquor and to my way of thinking (I'm no chemist) it seems that the weight of a gallon of 114 proof liquor would be less than a gallon of 114 proof liquor+ sugar. i.e. the density should be obscured by the sugar as well as the proof? I'm sure I'm missing something but would sure appreciate if someone has an explanation of the logic behind it.

Is this an online thing or in person?

The system lag is hard to quantify because the temp lag allows the still head to get so far out of eqbuilibrium. My controller temp is 10 degrees behind the actual temp so by the time it starts making changes things are way off and still head equillibrium takes longer than it would if the valve began to adjust soon after setpoint temp threshhold was crossed. I'm reading up on how derivative value on the controller works, is that the major variable you use to correct for lag time? I ordered a copper thermowell to see if it makes a difference. The controller is only 3 feet away. Thanks for the feedback everyone!

I just set up a basic control system consisting of a temperature probe, PID controller and actuated valve for my dephlegmator. The idea being I could control my runs by adjusting the temp setpoint on the controller throughout the run. My problem is the temp probe has a thermowell which is acting as a heatsink and the temperature from the probe is way behind the actual temp shown on the analog thermometer. So the controller is way behind the temp in making adjustments an d I get unacceptable temp swings. Any advice on where to find a temp probe that can be directly inserted into a stillhead without need for thermo well? Thanks!

I just posted a topic on this same issue, sorry for the redundancy. There is a footnote for line 32 Part II that reads "1 Bottled nonindustrial (beverage) use spirits may not be received or transferred in bond."

Looking at the Processing monthly report 5110.28 and came across this annotation under Part II - FInished Products "1 Bottled nonindustrial (beverage) use spirits may not be received or transferred in bond." I was looking at helping someone out that owns a bunch of bottles at a distillery they had partnered with that just went out of business but still has a DSP. We where going to have the bottled product TIB to my facility and then sell them from here, but I just saw that note on the processing account form. I had assumed it was legal as I had seen people advertising contract bottling which seems like it would involve TIB of bottled beverage use spirits. Thanks for any advice.

Good Luck! Where in PA are you?

My question is what about liquor with sugar added between 0-400mg/100ml? Does TTB ignore the obscuration up this point. If it is 0.4 degrees obscuration of proof per 100g/100ml it seems like that is a lot of allowable error.

Thanks for the Info Silk City. I haven't seen any mention of scale for determination of obscuration of proof by evaporation. The TTB video says "an analytical balance reading to at least 4 decimal places" and shows a 2.4166 gram readout, which would equal 0.1mg readout; but I don't see anything in the gauging manual to back that up. It seems exorbitantly accurate to me but maybe I am missing something. I am ignoring the difference between readout and accuracy which was pointed out, because the video specifically mentions readout. 400mg sugar per 100ml would be minimum reading of 100mg per 25ml sample. At readout of 1 mg that is max 0.5% error, and if the proof is obscured by 1.6 degree per 400mg/100ml than the error due to scale accuracy becomes 0.008 degree of proof. I would think that is within the bounds of what is required. At 0.1mg readout this becomes 0.0008 degree proof. I just got a $435.10 0.1mg readout scale (repeatability +- 0.3mg) from Amazon for this purpose but it is not NTEP. Prime scales gave me a quote for $1,000 and said the NTEP version would be 3-4 times more. I am going to go on the assumption I don't need NTEP for this since the potential for error is so small. Thanks for any feedback.

it says $200 I believe

I got a still and a masher from them and wish I had never done business with them.

We are currently using a White Labs temp stable alpha-amylase prior to beginning the boil and heating to 190 f. Directions says to add pre boil and that enzyme will be de-activated during the boil. If doing a method like DonMateo talked about, adding the water super hot with the grain and letting it cool, would adding the alpha amylase at its highest stable temp during cool down still be beneficial? Is there a reason you want the alpha to be de-activated at some point? We also add barley at 145 f.

I was wondering about this the other day. If you are unsure of the sugar content, would a TDS meter work for determining what method you need to determine proof by? (a) General. Proof obscuration of spirits containing more than 400 but not more than 600 milligrams of solids per 100 milliliters shall be determined by one of the following methods. The evaporation method may be used only for spirits in the range of 80–100 degrees at gauge proof. If 1 ppm = 1mg/l that would be 4,000-6,000 ppm TDS reading.

Paid $1,750 per new. Add in delivery you are looking at $2,000 per. They have ever been used. Make an offer.

I am not sure but would be very interested in joining.

Does the bluing in the still indicate a vapor leak? I am getting poor yield and blue staining on my tri clamp gaskets between the column sections.

At what proof were they barreled?

Hi Jedd, I just ran my first stripping run, I calculated about 9.5 gal total alcohol in the wash and got back 7.3 gal. I stopped running still when effluent was at 10% alcohol. Could you please share what is your estimated ethanol loss left in the still for a stripping run? I'm assuming less than 23% I got.

Does anybody know where these are still available?

Do you know of any form/worksheet like this for Gauge Record? I thought I read on one of these forums there where a downloadable set of templates that came with becoming an ADI member but now cant find it.

It seems like a reasonable question to me. I use enzymes and am fairly new to distilling, so I am trying to learn whether it has a negative impact on the final product (either perceived or actual) . Would you say the customers that ask are turned off by the fact it has liquid enzymes added to the mash?

Thanks, I just found those definitions. The efcr.gov website is much easier to navigate the the gpo.gov site. So is being in the storage vs. production account what differentiates a "tank" from a "package"? If I do my production gauge on each still run and then transfer into the storage account to a 100 gallon metal drum, the 100 gallon drum would be a "package" and not subject to the quarterly inventory?

Is a barrel deemed a "package" for this purpose.

I've been re-reading some cfrs trying to make sure I am doing all the reporting correctly. My question is does the quarterly inventory include all barrels? Do you have to move and weigh all barrels each quarter? 19.333 Physical inventories. A proprietor must take a physical inventory of all spirits and wines held in the storage account in tanks and other containers (except packages) at the close of each calendar quarter. A proprietor must record the results of the inventory as provided in subpart V of this part. TTB may require additional inventories at any time.