MG Thermal Consulting

I have to congratulate you on keeping up "beekeeping". A lost art to be sure. My Grandfather was a farmer back in the depression when many farmers had hives- I wonder how crop yields have changed since?

The jacket mash cool will require more chilling HP or at minimum a larger water reservoir than a external heat exchanger. I use 50F chilled water for the heat exchangers I specify and a 500 Gal mash gets crash cooled in 1 1/2 hr. One client up North has added a drycooler and isolation exchanger to cool in the winter with a 1000 gal water reservoir and hasn't turned on the chiller yet (who knows when with the cold they've been having!). Some energy saving ideas for you to consider.

I would suggest you reach out to Jes at Trident Stills in ME, USA. Are you in the US? Mike

Hello, I have been working with another distillery in your state on their chilled water system to take advantage of the colder climate. Good luck and if you need any anything on the chilled water side, give me a shout. Regards, Mike

Iron is a toughie to get out of water and can cost more than all the rest put together...I remember the old iron ring in the sinks back on the farm, and this was in Upstate NY (Finger Lakes Area).

What grape varieties were there? The first commercial winery was (and still is) in the Hudson Valley of NY, Brotherhood Winery. Just wondering if they were a native or brought overland. Good luck, by the way. Mike

Congratulations, the more the merrier! Mike

The problem you have using heat pumps as chillers is two-fold: 1. Since the are built to a strict ASHRAE standard, by operating them at conditions other than what they were rated for means they are inherently inefficient. 2. Since the heat pump is trying to serve two "masters" - summer and winter, means something has to give there as well. Since you are in an climate where in the winter you can take advantage of a drycooler to make the chilled water (or most of it) in conjunction with a summer chiller with a properly sized chilled water reservoir to work on spikes of the load, you can get a fairly decent shaving off Kw in winter. Looking into solar heat for your ingredient water would reduce operating costs on the heating end. A couple of suggestions, anyway. BTW, are you crash cooling a mash? If so, a more efficient method of crash cooling is with an external exchanger (a picture of one by Trident Stills is on my website) which can operate with a higher temp chilled water than most jackets, meaning a shorter duration of chilling time, saving energy. If you would like to discuss various merits of process chilling, I would be happy to talk anytime. Mike

hotrod, Good Luck to you. I am just down the road and recently was up in Clayton visiting the distillery there. If you need any help on your water chilling system, give me shout. Mike

Hello, I have quoted some cooling systems more west of you (Nashville area ) and north into W KY. If I can help on you cooling system, give me shout. MIke

Generally you can run 460/3/60 US on 400/3/50 (it'll run slower) but to do it in reverse means motor will run hotter and overloads may not be sized properly, along with mechanicals at the higher speed. It's a crap shoot if the manufacturer can't tell you.

Take one of the distillery courses offered ...Paul at MB Roland Distillery at Pembroke, KY (N of Nashville) is probably your closest (?). Do this after your have done your research and have a rough idea where you're headed. Good Luck! Mike

Curious...you are putting in water treatment for the well water, no? If not, you can foul up the tubes on your condenser (if you are using a shell and tube), given the hardness of the Mid-west water. Just wondering.

Great luck on you adventure! Give me shout if you need any help with cooling systems. Regards, Mike

Ken, Check out Trident Stills, close to you in ME while you are visiting, Jesse can supply your needs for distillation equipment. I have used his exchangers and he is extremely knowledgeable and helpful to his clients. I can help you out on the cooling side as well. Mike

7th is spot on there. We supply chillers and heat exchangers for this express purpose. I can send you a sample schematic. If you have a mash cooling load, be sure to make room for a water reservoir to take out the shock of the initial heat from the mash cooler. BTW, the cooling system would cost less than the well- pretty sure, but depends on the size chiller required. Good Luck. MIke

Whatever you do as far as a reservoir tank (I have a piping sample on a 500 gal still using a 1000 gal poly reservoir and a 10 HP chiller), the chiller usually has it's own dedicated pump (higher flow, low TD) while the process (lower flow, wider TD) for the condensers. Just a thumbnail on your chiller selection, if you are looking at running 5 stills at once, I would say a 12.5 HP (ton?) chiller is marginal. Your capacity of 200,000 Bth/hr looks more like a 20 HP chiller which serves the brewery too, I assume. Anyway, if you would like the sample schematic, send me an email. Mike

Greeting J! Lots of great info to be had here! If you need any help on the cooling water side, give me a shout. Regards, Mike Gronski MG Thermal

Or work the electric backwards from your meter amount & cost / month & the amount of runs in that month.

Basically what I recommend, David. But if you have a system like yours, I'd be looking at about one 500 gal reservoir and a 4 HP chiller. For those up North, I quote them an optional winter glycol cooler (has its own circulator pump) and an indoor isolation exchanger for another $3,100 an you can cut the winter HP used from 5 1/2 HP (chiller compr, fan & pump) to 1 1/2 HP (wintercooler fan & pump) in this example. May not be much with a small system, but if you do mash cooling and you have a 10 ton chiller, the wintercooler (a larger htx is needed) saves quite a bit more HP. Another factor going to two tanks and not one is that the chiller temp is lower 32F vs 50F which costs more in Kw/ton of refrigeration. Of course, it depends on the amount of hrs the chillers are actually running and the efficiency (my 50F 4HP would need 6 or 7 HP to get to 32F). There are always several ways to skin the cat, but most are similar in that they use the flywheel effect of a storage tank.

I have a line of new and used chillers that I use for that express purpose. The best deal I have right now is a 2 HP, 230/1/60 and a 3 HP, 460/3/60 package chillers with circulating pump, both used less than a year and returned back to the factory. Email me and I can send you over specifications and pricing. How big is the still or how do know how much cooling do you think you'll need? The chillers are FOB Rogers, AR, plus freight. We'll run test them and ship from the factory in about a week. Mike Gronski mikegronski@gmail,com www.mgthermalconsulting.com

Kevin, Good luck! Next year I hope to make a swing to NE to see a cooling system being put up in VT now and to see the boys up at Trident in ME. Who knows where I'll get lost and be at your doorstep, LOL. If I can be of any help on cooling systems, give me a jingle. Regards, Mike

Welcome DKR, I'll email you some info on my closed loop cooling systems for your consideration. Call me anytime for questions. I have a good friend and associate that lives in Wilmington who is an expert with material handling devices and controls, if you need info in that area. Good luck! Mike Gronski 678-773-2794

There are "hot oil/glycol" temperature controllers that are powered by electric elements, common in the plastics/optics industries for close temp control and heat up of a mold before pressing. The PID controller will control whether it is in "heat" mode or "cooling" mode. They are available with 4 Kw and up heaters, normally 460/3/60 but can be purchased with 230/3/60. Basic ones are about $2,000 but if you need special wiring codes, the price jumps quickly.

I believe Jess over at Trident Stills also does electric mash tuns.