MG Thermal Consulting

I had a client use a couple stainless tanks for reservoirs, I supplied him the chiller with non-ferrous water passages. He would pump potable water from the tank, through the chiller , then to the mash exchanger and finally to Hot water tank for potable use. He would make up water to the cold tank, if he was in the hot water saving mode. I don't have photos as yet, but will get some sooner or later.

Yep, you have to be like a Borg and adapt- resistance is futile.

..and 60F is mighty cool unless that's the cooling water temp? Principle is the same, except load would be about half that, look at the picture, put one hand over your eye, look at the picture- wallla! a 5 Ton unit!

The whole concept revolves around the cost of a closed loop cooling system vs. city water where it's used and discarded. In order to reach 60F product temperature , you need a minimum of 10 degree approach, even better with 20 degree. The approach is the difference between the target temperature and the entering cooling water temperature. Of course, you can try to cool it part way with city water and then switch over to a closed loop system, but you would need to not cross contaminate if you are using treated water or glycol in the chiller system. If you want this cooled in an hour, you're talking a 10 ton load.

I can do this for you, if you're still interested. The photo is for a system to chill 300 Gal wort.

Where are you in AR, Mr Rock? I believe I may be relocating to N AR, Looking for properties this Fall (Had enough of Atlanta livin').

Heat exchangers like Paul's work great, but many see the time stretched out because their cooling water can't remain cold enough for a long enough time. I usually point clients to a chiller with a reservoir to accomplish the task, in your case about a 30 HP chiller and 3000 gal reservoir. The photo on my ID is of a 40 HP with 2500 Gal tank.

I have went around with clients- on the subject of cooling systems with regards to discharges. Simple, but it costs money. Extra equipment that isn't investigated before budgets are put into stone to collect hot water in reservoirs, extra heat exchangers to collect heat to transfer to boilers and hybrid cooling systems. The smaller the distillery, the tougher the payback return.

I recommend you take a look at the cooling systems employed by different size distilleries. Most systems I configure are customized in some way to include mash cools, still types and length of runs, number of fermenters that are temperature controlled, and climate considerations. Please contact me if you want some examples. A fairly large distillery I supplied cooling for is being put up in Chicago, a few around NY, MD & PA as well as CA and KY, NC and TN off the top of my head. Regards, Mike G. 678-773-2794

Yep, here is where you start the cooling with a full reservoir of cold chilled water at near 45F. For those that want to mash twice a day, figuring they can just do mash #1, still run#1, mash run#2, still run#2 with the same chiller and reservoir...trouble is you are not starting mash run #2 with a 45F reservoir, more like 70F and can't get the second crash done. Then they add a second reservoir to remedy that...but, can't figure why the same chiller can't get both reservoirs back to 45F by sunrise...and so it goes.

The mash cooling will probably put you in the market for a chiller due to where you're located. Depending on the volume of mash, I have some factory refurbs that you can use with one of Paul's coolers to get the job done. If it's a small volume, less that 150 Gal, I have a copper/steel one that you can use to get you there in less than a couple hours. Once you get close to 80F city water, about the best you can get down to is around 100F mash, if you're lucky. I've seen adapting old milk coolers to make chilled water to pump through a mash cooler, and since you're in a big farm area, you may be able to latch onto one. Good luck!

Hey, Joe. Good luck on your distillery- you have a few guys around you, I sold a chiller system to Jim over at Mingo Creek. A great guy to talk to, if you haven't already. If you need anything on the cooling side, give me a jingle. Mike G. 678-773-2794

B, I have sold many small chillers for cold filtering. Normally a 3 to 5 HP is used, I have a stock 4 HP 230/1/60 discounted for sale, less than $8,000 including freight to Mid-USA, a tad more to either coast. You'll need to charge the system with 40% propylene glycol mix to make 25F to get the job done. A circulating pump is included with the chiller. Contact me if you have questions.

Man, I'd like to try that Slivovitz!!! I think my Granddad used to make something like it on the farm- all I know is, after he died my dad found a bottle of something fermented in the basement. Whatever it was, brought tears to my Dad's eyes, an he was a WWII vet! Yikes!

Hey OCD! If you need any cooling system help, give me a shout!

If you keep your pond at 55F or lower, then I would agree but I don't know the volume of the pond or the temp. I would say in most places it wouldn't work year round, only as a part year solution. Are you pumping ethanol on both sides of the htx or are you pulling pond water directly into the htx? If you are pulling it directly, how do you keep the htx from being fouled, a large filter?

I have supplied chillers for these Low temp type processes for over 30 years (plus the fragrance industry) where alcohol is used and if the chiller or any electrical device is near a possible alcohol fume, and can produce a spark (even from a stone hitting a fan motor) it must use NEMA-7. Most common way do do this now is to nitrogen purge a NEMA-4 enclosure or encapsulate the device (fill it) with silicon so no oxygen can enter. I am rather surprised so far that a craft distillery has not blown up to change standards (liability and insurance), knocking many out of the business.

I have augmented a few set up like you describe, usually in most of the USA, the ground temp is 55F as far as design goes. You can run a still with 55F but rarely can you get mash cooled with that temperature, so if you need a booster chiller, you are back to buying a chiller and heat exchanger to do that, and you'll need colder than 45F to overcome the bad heat transfer of the alcohol if you use that as a cooling medium. The further I go North, I offer dry coolers and heat exchangers for winter use, to save utilities that way, along with a generous reservoir tank which is normally cheaper than a geothermal set up. Most people don't want to have the worry in any event of a heat transfer leak underground. EPA becomes a little vocal about it. How many gallons is your complete alcohol charge that you use for heat transfer, just for giggles?

I hope your electrical is explosion proof, a word to the wise.

Dehner has a good bead on a potential logjam- In order to run the still "continuously" you have to have a lot of mash ro be churned out, with a lot of extra cooling to do it. I have done proposals that got nowhere because what seemed good to the client was unaffordable when the components cooling load was tallied up and costed out. Everything has to be matched up and down the line for it to work.

Hey, you look familiar... I used to live in Hamburg, left in 2001. If you need anything for you cooling system, give me a shout. Good luck! Mike G (Bills fan from afar)

I would say that any safety interlocks need to have default contact to the owner and possibly a security outfit/fire department as well. If you deal with large ammonia systems, when safeties go off- horns go off & everyone comes running.

If you need any add on chiller capacity, I can help out on that end. At these sizes a heat recovery chiller may be able to preheat water and add on extra cooling capacity as well. By using a refrigerant-water desuperheater option, you can store potable hot water for mash batching and use the chilled water for the still cooling. Hot water will decrease the size of the additional boiler HP if you intend on using "clean" steam. Chiller sections can be made in modular form as well.

Chiller needed?

Howdy! hope to see you here again!