Thatch

Being in the build-out phase ourselves, there are a lot of additional people you need to make happy. I don't know if you had to get approval to open you repair shop but some cities do not want a distillery. Even if you are not opposed, there are many building and fire codes you will have to comply with and even though these are National in scope the local interpretation can stop you. Then there is your state liquor control board that will have a say in how and what you can sell. Make sure your AHJ (Authority Having Jurisdiction) wants to have a distillery in his city before doing anything else.

Stopped at a distillery in North Carolina last year and was told they could sell 1 750ml bottle per customer per YEAR. I don't believe they can sell direct to restaurants and bars. So, I am happy that we have a bit more leeway.

Ohio allows us to sell two 750ml bottles per person per day from the tasting room. We can also sell directly to restaurants and bars. But, we cannot sell directly to retailers that sell bottles, this must come from a state warehouse to the retailer.

Thanks Silk The disagreement started before the post but I am not being difficult about it. Frankly if the costs are not a lot more going their way I am going to drop the issue. You are correct, they do not have a grasp. The first problem came when they said that two still equaled 250 gallons thereby exceeding our MAQ.

Thanks guys, The input is terrific. A special shout out to Silk for talking engineer, to Bluestar for making me think about spill control and to Tim for letting me know that others have had the same issues we are currently trying to tackle. For the next guy that has to go down this path I offer some additional information. Consult the International Mechanical code. Although section 502.8.1.1 tells us how much air exchange is necessary in an area of hazardous vapors, both 502.9.5.2 as well as 502.9.5.4 say that 502.8.1.1 is only applicable if the MAQ is EXCEEDED.

We are doing a build out of a distillery that will occupy approximately 600 sq feet within a 13,000 sq foot building that is F-1 occupancy. The consulting engineers believe we need to classify the area which then kicks in special placement and sealing of electrical services. I have found several tidbits on the web that tell me this is not true as long as adequate ventilation is present. From reading various items it seems that adequate ventilation means 6 air changes per hour, or 1 CFM per square foot of floor area used for storage. The requirement is to keep the vapor concentration from exceeding 25% of the Lower Flammable Limit. This is new building and the air exchange would be around 3200 cfm. We have sprinklers throughout and will not exceed 240 gallons of storage, which is our MAQ. The total square footage of storage space will be approximately 30 square feet. All storage will be done in 55 gallon stainless steel barrels. There are no walls within the 13,000 square feet. We will have two 125 gallon electric stills. From both a code stand point as well as a “real life” safety stand point I do not think we need to be classified. One of the points the consulting engineers bring up is: How can we determine there will be no pooling of the vapors that would exceed 25% of the LFL? My first thought is to run a floor fan 24/7/365 to disperse any potential pooling but if there is another common sense approach I’d like to hear it. Any ideas of how not to be classified are appreciated

Thanks Silk, You, Paul and Nabtastic have given me a great outline to follow. Cheers!

Thanks nabtastic, I appreciate you taking the time to write. Sounds like great advice which I will use.

Ditto and we had one that required some heavy lifting on his part. Former TTB, often quoted on this forum.

If you have a lake or well to draw from for your water source then water will be less expensive. We are in Northern Ohio and we would be paying both the water and sewer charges to cool our equipment which made glycol the best bet. You haven't said anything about the size of your equipment but since you are asking the question I am assuming it is pretty good size. For sizing you will need to tell us what you want to cool and then Mike from MG Thermal who frequents this forum would likely be able to tell you what's best. Another thing to keep in mind is the summer vs winter temp of your water. We get ours from Lake Erie and in the dead of Winter it is 40 degrees but in the Summer it can get as high a 75 degrees which may not be low enough depending on what you are doing. Cheers

Thanks Paul, Seems like good advice in any country.

Hi all, We are just starting up in Ohio. Ohio allows little guys to do sales and self distribution. Any comments you might have on how/when to approach a bar owner/manager or liquor store owner/manager would be greatly appreciated. I’m looking for do’s and don’ts. Cheers

I don't know a thing about this specific applicator but I have designed many label applicators in my previous life. Based on your description of the bottle as a "flask" I would think there is a high point that the applicator pad would touch and then retract. This would not seal the label completely to the bottle. What would be better is something called a tamp/blow that would touch the bottle, release its suction (the label is held in place by suction) and then blow the edges of the label down.

ditto. They have insured many breweries and distilleries. This is their find an agency page. Just type in your zip code. https://www.cinfin.com/find-agency?&gclid=CjwKCAiA8bnUBRA-EiwAc0hZk0yQEawNUi5d6W3xEs8lejSZVhlDUPY7wk45zBbwBmLI2L0hE8jE7xoCX9UQAvD_BwE

Agricultural millwrights, where are you located?

Nope, ADI has a $150 floor pass. So, the vendors suffer because the organizers did not have the foresight to plan for a floor pass. Very sad. Many people attend trade shows with no other purpose other then talking to vendors. Vendors do trade shows so they can see as many potential buyers as possible. Not sure how the organizers have missed this point. A colored bar on the badge (assuming paper) in a badge holder is the way the rest of the world does it. Red for floor only, green for conferences.

I'd love to walk the show to talk to vendors but not for $600. To bad they don't have a floor only admission like ADI.

We're just starting up and these are issues that we wrestled with along the way. Hot Liquor Tank vs Tankless water heater – pros and cons? Proper manifold construction and controls? How to aerate prior to fermenting? Filtering prior to bottling – what should be used – why do it? Alcohol Vapor detection – what’s out there - what measure should you take?

CENTIGRADE

Cindy Cosmos, Principal Flavorist Bell Flavors & Fragrances 500 Academy Drive Northbrook, Il 60062 cscosmos@bellff.com Phone: 847-291-4422 Sovereign Flavors and Flavor Chem many that are already TTB approved. Mother Murphy's Flavors 615-330-1925 Cheers!

We've had our permit for a couple of weeks and we are still in the construction phase. The only thing submitted were drawings. Yes

In my other life I have been in the barcode business from the industrial side for 35 years. I have many contacts in the business and here are their comments. Their names have been deleted. Many of these folks have been involved in barcodes since day one. *************************************************************************************************************************************************** I bought one of the numbers then looked it up on GEPIR. My number was originally part of a block owned by XXX. Apparently, this company bought its number from UCC back when it only required a one-time payment, consequently it is not dependent on annual renewals for validity. In any event, I would imagine that GS1 would not be too thrilled with Speedy Bar Code. *************************************************************************************************************************************************************** It is truly amazing how much history gets lost as us retired firemen get farther from the front lines. The UCC issued their prefixes with a lifetime, one time fee. After they merged with EAN to become GS1 their experiment with the dot com business model failed and in an effort to recover their losses GS1-US tried to switch and charge previous prefix holders dues. Several long time UCC members sued. They were successful and GS1-US stopped sending invoices to their members. Thus the long time UCC members did not and do not have to join GS1-US again. They are members by right of their previous membership in the UCC. GS1-US cannot rescind the prefixes previously issued. As for selling individual UPCs – That is a practice that has gone on for decades. I recall there were a number of other who did as well. The prefix I bought is 8 digits long, so theoretically I could sell 10,000 UPCs (each 12 digits long), or even more fun I could go with GTINs at 14 digits and sell a million of them. This is nothing new. My advice to any potential purchaser would be caution – as long as this outfit does what is promises and does not reissue a number, then you are pretty much safe. GS1 membership does have some advantages, in that they keep you updated on changes and how to implement their system. At one time you could not get the General Specification without paying for it. New GS1-US members got it free and the old UCC members were told to pay to for it. Now it is free and available online without charge or restriction. If you are inclined to read the GENSPEC and follow the changes then GS1-US membership for the really small manufacturers does indeed make no sense. ****************************************************** This activity is legal and dates back to the early 2000’s. Basically those organizations who purchased barcode numbers prior to August 28, 2002 owned these barcode for life…they became part of the organization’s assets. The company could keep them or sell them. These folks were grandfathered into the current way GS1 US is conducting business. If you were to purchase the barcodes today, you would pay an annual licensing fee to GS1 US. Basically the numbers being sold on Speedy Barcodes are probably those that organization bought because the original purchaser wasn’t doing anything with the. Details: https://www.barcodestalk.com/ucc-settlement ***************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** Essentially they are hocking GTIN's (not UPCA's) using a GS1 US company prefix's that they have licensed. This practice is not approved and is not recommended. Many new companies are unaware that they need to obtain a Company Prefix directly from GS1 US. There are online firms offering individual UPC’s. Many of these UPC barcode resellers are preying on the lack of understanding by many small new businesses. Common claims are “Our UPC’s originate with the GS1”, “Official UPC codes”, or “Authentic and Unique UPC barcodes”. Before you take a chance with your company’s future, we encourage you become educated on the actual requirements and processes required to properly mark your items and shipments. This alternative might work for your situation, but you should be fully informed of potential limitations. The barcodes being sold from Speedy do not meet GS1 US standards and depending on their purpose they may be unusable. For instance, you could not mark food with them and sell the food to Krogers. You could probably mark food and sell it through a small store operation. It is not recommended and we at AIM Global should not encourage this practice.

Thanks Bluestar - we will do whatever is necessary to make the TTB happy. Dave Dunbar has been a very good source of information for us to date.

Well, you learn something new every day. This was written by a friend familiar with the company and barcodes in general. "They are working within a loophole created by a class action lawsuit. They buy the prefixes from people not using them and then resell product numbers."