MG Thermal Consulting

I happened to be talking to an engineer I do business with about distilleries and he does many water treatment systems for caustic industries (tanneries, metal acid plating) and he basically said what was biological shouldn't be a problem unless you put a large distillery in a small town and surpass their capacity. Didn't talk to him about septics, tho. Mike

Looks like a few are putting in combination brewery and distillery now. I am quoting the chilled water loop for one in MO. Call me if you need any help. Mike 770-995-4066

Nathan, Welcome and I'm sure you'll enjoy chatting with everyone, a great bunch of people! I can help you out on you chilled water system and heat exchangers. You can see pictures on my website: www.mgthermalconsulting.com Give me a shout anytime. Mike Gronski 678-773-2794

Let me know if the buyer needs a glycol chiller for the tanks, I have some used available.

Thanks a lot. I can see where the brewers would like that system (now cycleCO2.com)- keeps all the workers from falling asleep, LOL. Not cheap tho, I can't see a distiller leasing one unless he owns a brewery. Interesting though.

Natrat, Do you know of a company that does the reclaim? I have been asking a refrigeration compressor OEM if he knows anyone that does this same thing (since it would involve compressing the CO2, and liquefying it into a holding tank). Regards, Mike

the water out temp is a function of GPM and water in for a fixed BTU/hr load. If the water in is fixed, then as the GPM is throttled, the water out will go up or down in temp. if you have a fixed flow rate, then the only way to change performance is to make the water colder (or warmer). You can do a lot more tweaking with a closed loop, obviously, than you can city water to increase performance.

Just got a note from a Northern distiller who uses a 10 ton chiller plus a 10 ton drycooler loop for water chilling his 500 Gal Still- from the time he started up in December until April 15, he ran completely with an outdoor glycol loop with a single fan cooler /pump tied into his indoor water loop and reservoir. He just has started up his 10 ton chiller, so for 4 1/2 months his power savings was 10 HP, practically a wash for the cost of the drycooler in one winter. Larger systems are available present, if needed. Contact me to discuss the system. Regards, Mike Gronski MG Thermal Consulting

Good luck on your growth. Mike

If you have a closed loop cooling set-up, another way to go on the process pump (not your chiller pump) is to run it with VFD via your temp controller, control panel package, throttling the flow without valves and saving electric.

Much of this depends on the design of the condenser. I have seen a large spread of water GPM requirements for the same size stills tells me one thing, the outgoing water will vary as widely. 80 to 100F is more common for recirculated water systems, meaning temperature incoming is lower or the flow is greater than for city water.

I have quoted equipment off the Keys for a rum distillery. Microbrews are busy as well.

Reviews are a funny thing..I have dealt with thousands of customers and hundreds of manufacturers in my time and there are some that are a joy to work with, some you can take or leave (mostly dread the phone call from) and those you won't talk to fro all the tea in China. And many have the same feelings about you. Over the years you gravitate to the first as much as possible (time is short!). I generally have had some very good experiences with this forum and not many "snipers" or too many "know it alls). It gets old to see some axes being ground to the handle, for sure. On the other hand, I have had heard and talked to some that have been truly been lead down the garden path or got given proper information by manufacturers that probably couldn't be gotten away with except for the "boom". I try to be as generic as possible with advice and hope to save some a few bucks on their start ups. What goes around usually comes around, but sometimes you have to live a looong time to see it!! In the case of a serious gripe with a manufacturer, I would advise someone ( moderator?) give the manufacturer a chance to respond. Some care, some truly don't, especially if they are a large company. At this point I see some outfits trying to make a quick buck by copying a design because lead times from "usual suspects" getting overwhelmed. Only thing I can say is go see their installations (more than one, since one may have been a "gift" to get an installation), and remember- if their price is too good, always suspect.

The Mickey D's of Vodka?

DC, MD and VA are all hot spots! I hope to have a cooling system go in MD very soon!

Sam, I could get a galvanized vertical air tank which we could fit for chilled water. Where were you going to put the chiller? This would be closed loop with some inhibitors put in the water to keep it from making rest and such in the loop. I'm pretty sure you would be way under $10,000. I have another fellow looking at pressure tanks for me & I'll ask him. Mike

I can't help you out but like you, I'd wonder just because somebody says something, doesn't make it so! Without a UL label or ASME stamp, you have no certainty of anything, really.

Hey Sal, I use the reservoirs to capture more cooling (as many describe)- this is most effective when you have mash to cool, which is time dependent (2-3 hrs). To chill mash without a storage tank, you need to oversize the chiller which makes it about twice or more the size of what you can accomplish with a storage tank piped in. That being said, the chiller I offer can be used without tanks, but you are making the system much more unaffordable. You have to make other allowances like an external bypass arrangement to pre-cool the hot water coming back from the still. We can discuss it at length, if you wish. James, The method you use is not very accurate to size the chiller, certainly in the case when you're cooking mash, then taking heat back out. To complicate it, the size (actual performance!) of the condenser is directly responsible for sizing the chiller load. You can either get the manufacturer tell you how many btu/hr the condenser will reject, test the condenser with city water as close to 50F as practical, or if you already have the chiller sized for the mash cool and have one still-one mash tun, you're covered since the mash load is much larger (btu/hr) than the still cooling load. But your right about the chilled water tanks, but you do lose btu's coming off the open top , tho. I have talked to guys that use old dairy bulk milk tanks to store the cold water, too. The old refrigeration systems from them can't be repaired, so they scrap them- but that's ok, you're chilling the water and just storing it where the milk would be. Where there's a will, there's a way- but you still need something to get your water down to 50F for best results, no?

I offer closed circuit cooling systems which use refrigeration chillers and outdoor air- water/glycol coolers and auxiliary equipment for the entire cooling system. See my website for pictures of various items: www.mgthermalconsulting.com. Call or email and I'd be happy to give you some ideas and budgets. Regards, Mike

A small tip- when getting quotes for installation of boilers, best be sure the installer knows your local codes ( or has a license for your locality). These change from state to state and even county to county.

congrats! now the fun starts;) Mike

A lot depends on whether you can negotiate gas pricing (bulk buy) or not and the relative cost of electricity as mentioned before. If you are getting any help from a local grant, this may point you in a direction. Generally the larger you go in size, the better the Gas alternative looks, as first cost goes (relative install labor being almost the same). Good luck. Mike

Glad you're pulling everything together! VA and DC are busy places for distillers!!!

How many KW are you talking?

Good luck, Randy. I lived around Hartford with my first company out of college-- seems like a century ago ( bad jk!). If you need any help on cooling systems, give me a shout. Mike