Southernhighlander

Please excuse me forshot. Indyspirits, I want to apologize. I don't really think that you are a immoral person because you tried to build your garage without the permits. While it's not something that I would do, it's not like you robbed a bank or something. I went overboard and I apologize for that. Paul Hall

Explanation. In my opinion Ethics and Morality are inextricably linked. As an individual you cannot have one without the other.

Foreshot, sorry about that. My advice would be to choose a different location were it will be easier to get through all of the red tape. In my opinion a dense residential area is not the best place for a distillery. Will you be depending on tasting room sales as a primary source of income or will you be depending more on sales through distribution? If the latter is the case then you would be much better off in an area zoned for industrial or better yet out in the county with less or no zoning, a little ways out of town, just off an interstate or primary artery into the city. If you choose the latter then you will have several advantages. You will not have too pay city taxes on your sales. You will not have to pay the city for liquor licensing fees (its that way in MO anyway). You won't have concerned neighbors 50' away. Your space will probably cost you less and most importantly of all, you will most likely have to deal with a lot less red tape and bureaucracy to get started. Inspectors get a lot more nervous when you are starting your distillery in a dense area. I have a lot of experience concerning this because I get a lot of feedback from my customers. My customers who start distilleries outside of cities and congested areas have a much easier time and it seems to cost them a great deal less time and money to get started, than most of my customers who are in retail areas and other densely populated areas. I have also seen distilleries that do rely on tasting room sales and tours do really well outside of the city. If you can get a space along a highway or interstate that sees a lot of tourist traffic you can do really well. I know of a distillery on a gravel road just about 2 miles off of one of the major highways going into Branson MO and they get so much walk in business that they don't distribute. They don't need to. The state of MO put up a green and white sign with their distillery name on it right before the turn off to their distillery. The states of MO, KY and VA will put up a distillery sign along the highway for you, if you ask and I know other states will as well. Think about one of the busy freeways into your city and how many people would see your sign if you were set up a mile or two off of the freeway. Thousands of people every day would see that sign. If you can get set up where there is a well then you will never need a chiller. Also, it can be much easier to get rid of your spent mash in an area like that. There are many reasons why it is better to have your distillery outside of Cities and Towns, which is why most of the distilleries that have been around since before the craft distillery boom are outside of cities and towns.

Building your garage without the required permits was really a stupid thing to do. I would never do anything like that. You had to know that would come back and bite you and it was just as immoral as cheating on your taxes. Personally, I always fallow the rules where the rules apply. I never cheat. Cheaters always lose in the end. I have several rental properties. I am building another rental house on a 4 acre property. I only paid $4,000.00 for the land. It will cost me around $70,000.00 to build the 1,200 square ft house with central heat and air etc. It appraised at $116,000.00 for insurance. No building inspections or permits where required or I would have gotten them. I apologize for being off subject as well, but I just had to reply, to Indysprits.

Indysprits, It works very well for us here and it certainly makes it much easier to start a distillery when you do not have to deal with city and state bureaucracy of that type. It also means that a distillery can be started for much less money.

dhdunder, I meant no disrespect. I have equipment in around 19% of the distilleries in the US, so I am always helping my customers get through all of the hurdles that they face. Some of the those hurdles seem unreasonably high, but we have gotten past all of them equipment wise. I just said that I am glad that I do not have to deal with what you have to deal with. I would never live in any place where the powers that be, could dictate that I cannot put a water heater in my house without a permit, or build a house without paying thousands of dollars for a permit. I really love living where I can live free and still buy land for $1.500.00 per acre. When they say "we are the government and we are here to help" I get scared. I understand where you are coming from though, about not have a hog farm, move in next to you but no hog farmer, or shooting range would move into a congested residential area like that anyway, though I have seen the reverse happen more than I care to talk about. Considering that you are glad that you are protected from having something move in next door to you that you don't like, have you asked your neighbors that are only 50 ft away what they think about having a distillery 50ft away from them? I would think that they would be the first people that you would want to talk to. I know that just out of common courtesy, they would be the first people that I would talk to and if they did not like the idea i would find a different location, otherwise you will have continuing ongoing issues with your neighbors that may never end.

Houston Texas? They have building permits, building codes and zoning.

I am so glad that I live where we don't have to deal with any of that. No building permits, no building inspectors. no zoning. You can build what you want on your own property and wire and plumb it yourself, without answering to anyone. To get a separate address for my distillery, which is on the same 42 acre property as my house and 4 other businesses, all that I had to do was call the post office and get a new postal address and put up a mail box. Out here our postal addresses also serve as our physical addresses.

Hi Naven, Email me paul@distillery-equipment.com and we will fix you up with what you need.

jbdavenport Adding ice to 65 F water to get crash cooling water down to a lower temp works great. If you add the right amount of ice you can get the water temp just where you need it to be. For the most part, this method is only practical in a very small distillery. Silk city is correct in that a chiller will serve you better in most situations, but of course sometimes circumstances might dictate that chilling your crash cooling water with ice is your best option for the time being. For example, you can't afford a chiller right now and you already have an ice maker or you can get can ice maker really cheap or your brother owns an ice business. If you need a chiller you should try Mike at MG Thermal Consulting. He really knows his stuff when it comes to sizing chillers for the needs of a distillery. Here is a link to his site http://mgthermalconsultingco.com/ . Also he has some great deals and pricing.

Belew are pics of JPs completed equipment 125 gallon Conical Fermenters only $1,993.10 each 105 gallon open top baine marie mash tun with removable cooling coil and agitator only $6,293.14 as shown Mash tun removable crash cooling coil, agitator shaft and paddles shown below. The best costs less at Affordable Distillery Equipment http://distillery-equipment.com http://moonshine-still.co http://triclamp.co

Adding cold water to cool mash is an old tried and true method. I don't see any problem using ice.

Hi JP, Your equipment just went into one of our shops for testing and final processing. We should be done with it and have pictures over to you within the next couple of days. Thank you Paul

Hi Naven, Here is a link to our 300 gallon Pro Series Mash Tuns https://distillery-equipment.com/300gallonmashtun.htm We are at $13,492.00 on this one. We have them in stock with a really heavy duty 5hp geared agitators on them. We can supply you with a 300 gallon direct steam injected Mash Tun for less than $10,000 with the same agitator. These mash tuns are really heavy duty with thicker stainless and larger agitators than most of our competitors. We have equipment in around 19% of the distilleries in the US and that percentage is growing. Give me a call at 417-778-6100 and I will set you up with everything that you need. http://distillery-equipment.com http://triclamp.co http://moonshine-still.co

The top of the liquid level where the hydrometer sits in the parrot needs to be at least 4" below the liquid level at the very bottom of your condenser. You need a vent tube coming off of the line that feeds the parrot, that is at least 8" above the top of the liquid level in the parrot if vented to atmosphere inside the distillery ( If you do it this way you need an ethanol detector right above the vent output with an alarm or automatic shutdown). The best thing to do is vent to the outside of your distillery to a safe area. Before you do all of that, you need to make sure that your condenser is knocking down 100% of the vapor. Who set your parrot up the way that it is now? Also who built your still? Let me know where you are located. I may have someone up your way soon, as my employees travel all over.

You need a surge breaker. Email me a picture of your parrot and description of the connections and I will fix you up with something. paul@distillery-equipment.com

We don't use the neoprene impeller. We have a better impeller that is good to 185 F. Also our jabsco 20 has no threads inside the connections. The connections are completely sanitary.

Hello pcdc We sell both the inoxpa 10/40 and the jabsc 20 gpm pump. The inoxpa pump is not self priming and is not reversible. Also the impeller for the inoxpa costs twice as much as the impeller for the 20gpm jabsco. Our 20gpm jabsco is reversible and is self priming and the replacement impeller is around $100.00 Our pricing is better than all of our competitors for both of these pumps. Give us a call 417-778-6100 or email paul@distillery-equipment.com for pricing and availability.

We use Danfoss reverse acting thermostatic valves http://na.heating.danfoss.com/xxTypex/568675_MNU17534611_SIT209.html No controller is needed with these. Also no power supply is needed so they are inherently explosion proof. Also they are proportional, so they do not cause fluctuations in output. Every electrical component that you ad to your still is a potential ignition source. These are simple and work really well. You just set the temp dial and the valve will maintain that temp. We are danfoss dealers so if you are interested just give us a call or shoot out an email. 417-778-6100 paul@distillery-equipment.com http://distillery-equipment.com http://moonshine-still.co http://triclamp.co

Hi JP, As long as nothing goes wrong we will ship your equipment from here within the next 2 weeks. I am very sorry that we could not get it to you before your event.

Thanks Roger, i understand what you are talking about. I have tasted some pretty sorry spirits, both from distilleries and moonshiners. I was taught to never taste anything that doesn't smell right and I smell everything first and if it doesn't smell right I only pretend to taste it, to be polite. I hate the taste of heads and or fusal oil, and you are right some of the worst of these spirits have moonshine on the label, but at the same time I have smelled and tasted some barrel aged spirits that where really awful. My grandfather referred to what most moonshiners in our area called corn whiskey as corn flavored rum. Some of the worst of the moonshiners there would leave in the heads and they would proof by running tails into the receiving tank until their tamping jar told them that it was 100 proof but it really wasn't 100 proof, because the fusal oils would screw up the way that the liquor would bead, so their proof would be off. This stuff was awful and it would give you the most horrible hang over and skull busting headache. i think for the most part these idiots just did not know what they were doing and the ones who did know what they were doing were extremely secretive. This still goes on today. Even my dad made "corn flavored rum" from cane sugar and corn meal. All of the ethanol came from the sugar, because the starch in the corn was never converted. He actually used very little corn meal in his. He had a recipe called Money Maker which mainly involved ways of boosting the ABV of the wash. By using certain strains of yeast along with canned tomatoes, other yeast nutrients, aquarium bubblers, nitrogen, phosphorous, certain vitamins and adding more sugar at different points during the fermentation, he could get washes with abvs of 24% and higher in just 3 or 4 days, but even though he would do the cuts just right, this stuff never tasted that great. It had off flavors in it, that I think came from his yeast nutrients and that particularr yeast strain. He was always trying to improve the flavor, but he could never seem to do that without removing some of the things that gave him the really high abvs My dad could and did make some really great whiskeys and Brandies just like my Grandpa, but the "money maker recipe always gave him more income due to reasons that I won't go into. Also it was a good clean spirit that would not give you a skull busting head ache or horrible hang over. However it is not something that i would make. Sorry i know that I moved way off the point with the above, but the way that i grew up gave me the passion that I have today for all aspects of distilling. Thinking about it I would agree that there are probably more low quality spirits being sold with moonshine on the label than rum or corn whiskey, however I personally would never let that keep me from labeling a product moonshine. And to again make my most important point. In certain areas of the US the moonshine moniker may cause you to sell less but in my area and many others it will help you sell more. A craft distillery selling good hand crafted moonshine will please the masses here and in many other places. Of course my product line will involve a great deal more than moonshine.

I really don't see a problem with the name. Shine on brother!

I wholeheartedly agree. Also, I really like your name.

Huffy2k, I completely understand Roger's point and I think that your view point concerning moonshine is probably the common veiw point where you are and that you have made the correct decision in not selling moonshine there. At the same time my point is that that down here in the rural small town south, people have a very different view point concerning moonshine. It is part of our heritage and culture. Our moonshining ancestors created the distilling traditions in the US and we are very proud of that. If I have vodka as my flagship product here, I am not going to do well because most people here see vodka as something that teenagers mix fruit juice with to get drunk. We have no vodka or gin traditions here. On the other hand, if my flagship spirit is a very good sweet mash moonshine, it will sell really well to locals and tourists alike. Most of the drinkers here are loggers, sawmillers, truck drivers, heavy equipment operators, cattlemen and farmers and they typically drink a lot more than Whiskey and Vodka Snobs. No offense meant. Also the quality and taste matter far more than what you call it after the first bottle is sold because they are going to tell their friends if it is good. I have owned successful business's since I was 14 years old. My business's currently bring in millions every year. The 3 most important things to me are #1 making the best possible products for my customers, #2 making my customers happy and #3 making lots of money. My business models always revolve around those 3 things in that order and I believe that is why I have been so successful time after time. However, if I were in New Hampshire, I certainly would not be selling moonshine. I would probably call my sweet mash moonshine, New Hampshire's Finest Sweet Mash Corn Whiskey.

Microshiner, i agree with what you are saying about the industry on a macro level but I have a different, or lets say additional view point concerning things at the micro level.. you said: "The trouble is, you are not as accessible as beer or coffee, and therefore you must market. Craft beer and coffee's market inroads were built off grassroots, cash flow models - they became sustainable, even profitable, selling out the front door, then moved into distribution. Spirits are not consumed, let alone financed, in the same way, so we must utilize different methods in their marketing." Actually your statement above is not entirely correct. Here is what I mean. Different craft distilleries have different business models. The business models differ due to different state laws, circumstances and approaches. Many craft distilleries are very accessible and their market inroads are built from grass roots cash flow models where they sell out the front door and then later move to distribution or sometimes not. I know of a craft distillery that started out only selling bottles out of their tasting room. They are very near a tourist town with a sign out on the freeway that brings customers in every day, all day long. They were getting $25.00 to $30.00 per bottle and they were selling enough to make a good profit. Then they went to distribution, but they only did that for a short period of time because they were only getting around $12.50 per bottle from their distributor and it was really lowering their profit margin. So they built a bar there on site and they have a blue grass band on weekends. So, now they are getting over $100.00 per bottle in the bar selling drinks and they are still selling 25 to 50 bottles a day out of the tasting room. They are doing really well now. Also they and all of the other distilleries that sell out of their tasting rooms and especially those that are in and near tourist towns are introducing new people to distilled craft spirits every day, which is broadening our market share over time. I was first introduced to craft beer when visiting a craft brewery and i have been drinking craft beer ever since. I try new ones every chance that I get.